Boston Terrier Olive

[olivegirl]

Hi everyone. I am so glad to come across this forum and I have learned a lot just by browsing. My boston terrier Olive, 3 years old, began drinking and urinating excessively last week. I noticed because not only was she having accidents in the house (which is somewhat normal for her due to an earlier neurological condition) but she was also wetting the bed at night. I think she was urinating involuntary too as her thigh would be wet from laying in her pee. Regardless, I got her in to see the vet yesterday. My vet didn't seem concerned due to her age, but wanted to run a blood profile anyways. The results came back today that she is diabetic. I believe her blood sugar was around 350. I am bringing her back to the vet tomorrow to go other diet and insulin.

My heart just sank for her, she can't seem to catch a break. She was diagnosed with hydrocephalus about 1.5 years ago and she could barely walk; the vets didn't think she would make a full recovery from that and she has beaten all odds. I know diabetes is certainly manageable, I just can't help but feel bad for her. She has been through so much in her 3 years.

I wanted to see if anyone has come across many cases of diabetes in such a young dog? To me, it seems extremely young. I am curious to hear from others who have young dogs with diabetes and their experiences.

Also, are there other food options aside from prescription diets? I currently feed California Naturals and am looking to see if there are organic options aside from the prescription foods such as Science Diet.

Thank you all for reading and I am open to any advice or comments you may have.

[peggy0]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

So sorry to hear about Olive. Diabetes can strike at any age. My dog was 10 so others will have to chime in about our younger pups but there are many. I don't believe you have to change from California Naturals. It's a great food and many here stick with the food their dog likes unless it becomes a problem regulating them. I'd work on the insulin treatment first, then you can deal with the food. Its important that you open a dialogue with your vet right up front about your dogs treatment and things like food.

How much does olive weigh? How much do you feed her? It will be important to feed her with her insulin shot every 12 hours. Treats are tricky. Most here feed vegetables if their dogs like them or bits of meat. Some even dehydrate meat to give them something special.

It would be great if you learn to monitor at home. It will give you peace of mind knowing where Olives levels are. 350 actually isn't crazy high. Some dogs are diagnosed in the 600 and 700s!! Its also important to watch for ketones by testing urine. You can buy strips at the pharmacy for this. same ones you use for humans. ketones can damage kidneys and are very dangerous.

You can use a human monitor like Ultra touch 2 or there is a monitor for animals called an alpha trak.

We're hear to help you. Please ask any questions you might have and as often as you'd like. there are many here to help you out!!

Also, if you can add an avatar with Olives picture so we can enjoy her as well.

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

Welcome welcome welcome!

It's very scarey at first - but you have come to the right place!

Tami and the two sugar-babies, Soaphie & Sydney

[CarolW]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

Welcome to you and Olive!

Some dogs have been diagnosed as young pups. One, I think, at about 10 weeks. That one is thriving! (two years later, I believe).

It's hard at first, but once you get organized, on a schedule, it becomes a great deal easier. Watching with care really helps, and if/when you feel ready to try testing blood glucose levels, just give us a yell, and we'll be along to assist you.

Please keep us closely posted! I too would love to see pictures!

Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:10:48 (PST)

[olivegirl]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

Thank you all for the warm welcome and advice.

Olive weighs 14.8 lbs and eats about 1/2 cup of food a day. I currently free feed both of my dogs, but I know I need to now get Olive on a feeding schedule. I think that will be challenging at first since she isn't used to eating in the morning. She usually doesn't eat until the evening.

I would like to get into home testing once I get into a routine of things and will certainly be looking for any advice I can get!

[jesse girl]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

my jesse has one meal a day 4 units with meal and second shot 1 unit and a small snack( 1/4 of her dose with her meal) 12 hours later and dose great so if your dog does not want to eat 2 meals consistently there is another option

[CarolW]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

There was a time I free-fed my two Australian Terriers. Somehow, I guess I saw the writing on the wall, and thought, when they get older, they might have to eat things different from each other - which meant I should feed them in their crates. They never did eat different stuff; I fed the same to both dogs, but feeding in crates was helpful.

HOWEVER, I used to give them three meals a day, and a snack at bedtime. When Kumbi was diagnosed with diabetes, both dogs would eat breakfast, but elder, Kwali, found it terribly tough to wait 12 hours. For a time, I sneak-fed her some lunch. Later, she adapted.

As Kumbi's blood glucose levels came under control, he found it possible to wait the 12 hours; Kwali did, too.

About eating in the morning, perhaps without food available for free-feeding, Olive could develop an appetite for breakfast.

After Kumbi died, and FINALLY I got a new dog, I decided to use a 12-hour feeding schedule, because there are so many advantages to doing that. I had to try out times, to see what Camellia would cope with. We ended up with feeding at 6:30 a.m. and p.m., same as Kumbi.

To get Camellia to eat in the morning, I got up about an hour before feeding time, puttered around in the kitchen, fixed my own breakfast and ate it. And perhaps petted Camellia some, to help her wake up, or, rarely, took her outside to do her stuff. She's very thrifty, and only rarely needs to pee before her breakfast. She's been my dog a bit over six months; had her fourth birthday yesterday. We've adapted together to this schedule. It can take some time to make that adaptation, though it more important for a diabetic dog than it is for Camellia. (I keep thinking I should be injecting her at 7! - old habits die hard!)

If you can use veggies for snacks, perhaps that would help Olive adapt. Kumbi really liked steamed broccoli florets - so did Kwali.

I haven't tried Camellia on them. She seems to be uneducated in eating veggies and fruits.

I can see you're determined to meet this challenge. Good for you! Just keep yelling for support as you need it!

LOVE that avatar of Olive! If you have more pics, I'd love to see them!

Tue, 8 Mar 2011 17:17:34 (PST)

[SandyL]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

Hi and welcome!! You have definately found the right place for a ton of information and compassion! My baby was also just diagnosed about 3 weeks ago, but with everyone's knowledge on this board it has stopped me from feeling so alone and freaking out!!!
Tiggy also eats the California Natural Ultra...She wasn't a morning eater either but now she loves it because she's getting something our other dog isn't I give her 1/2 cup dry with 1/8 cup of a mixture of lean ground beef, chopped broccoli, and brown rice. She get that twice a day with 2U each feeding. She also gets a small piece of dried natural duck jerky as a mid morning snack
She'll be going in tomorrow for her first BG curve at the vets and hopefully I'll get the nerve to start testing her myself very soon

[k9diabetes]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

You and Olive have been through a lot! What a lucky girl she is to have such a dedicated person in her life.

Hopefully you will find, as we did, that diabetes is a pretty dull, uneventful issue compared to what she's been through already.

I have seen quite a few dogs diagnosed young and it's not uncommon to meet folks who have been managing their dogs' diabetes for 8, 9, 10 years. As long as it's managed well, it should not shorten Olive's lifespan at all. Dogs are fortunate that they don't suffer the many very difficult side effects of diabetes that people do.

California Natural is a pretty good food - Chris ate it for a while when he had diabetes though we did supplement it with some lowfat cottage cheese, which helped to slow his absorption of glucose from the food.

Blue Buffalo has worked very well for many diabetic dogs here so if you're looking for a new food to try, I would recommend the weight management version of Blue Buffalo as a great place to start. It's readily available too since it's carried by PetsMart and PetCo.

Natalie

[olivegirl]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

I like the idea of supplementing with lowfat cottage cheese, especially because I think this would help encourage her to eat on a schedule. How much did you supplement with? She likes her food and even if I do change, it would have to be a very slow transition. She has a sensitive stomach and cannot handle a cold turkey food change. I was looking at Wellness Core low fat as it seems to have a fairly decent fiber content (8%). Also I have heard Merrick carries low glycemic dog food, so I would like to look into that as well as the Blue Buffalo. If we are able to regulate her on the California Naturals though, that may be our best bet. I am hoping my vet is open to this; we are meeting later this afternoon.

I also think I am going to purchase a dehydrator to make treats. My other dog (pug) is extremely food motivated, so I would like to have one treat I can give to both dogs as they do everything together. Does anyone have experience with dehydrating chicken or beef to make homemade treats?

I would like to get into home testing as soon as possible; I work away from home for close to 10 hours a day and would like the peace of mind that I'm sure comes along with home testing. I guess, as a starting point, where is the best place to purchase an at home testing device for a good price?

Thank you all SO much for the advice. I am so happy to have found this forum...so many knowledgable and friendly people!

Here is a picture of my two - Olive and Charlie at Christmas time:

[k9diabetes]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

Aw.... what a great picture!!

Chris used to get a lot of cottage cheese - his meal was half either Canidae or California Natural canned food and half cottage cheese. It always worked extremely well for him and he loved it. The canned food alone was digested and metabolized too quickly.

Though Merrick got the low glycemic ranking, I don't think most people have found that it was not all that great a match for their dogs' insulin. Dogs often need some carbs so they have some glucose available early on if the insulin kicks in quickly.

Dogs are SO different in how they digest food and absorb insulin and respond to relative amounts of carbs, fat, and protein - even to what carb or protein you use... about all you can do is pick something "likely" to work well and then to try it. Testing blood sugar at home is the key to evaluating any diet change.

In terms of meters, I'd recommend either a OneTouch Ultra or a Freestyle meter. Generally I prefer the full size to the minis of any particular brand. You can usually get the meter free or nearly free with a rebate... I've seen Freestyles on the shelf at Target and Walmart for $20. The OneTouch was more like $70 but I believe they still rebate most of the cost at least on some of the models. A meter lasts a long time so it's a small investment. I used the same OneTouch Ultra for three years and still have it for occasional tests on people.

If you want to use a clicker for lancing, I think the Accuchek Softclix is a great choice. I didn't like any of the ones that came with my meters. The Softclix is quiet and gentle and has a good size lance on it.

I used to buy test strips at www.hocks.com. Others get them on places like eBay - have to be careful of the seller and make sure they are not expired.

Thanks so much for the picture - they are too cute!

Natalie

[olivegirl]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

Well we are back from the vet. My vet recommended the prescription diets but said it is more important that we work together and felt comfortable keeping Olive on her normal food since Olive has a history of GI sensitivity. We are starting Olive on 1 unit of humulin n twice daily. My vet also said she was comfortable keeping Olive on a free feeding schedule; she said that if her blood sugar was to drop too low, Olive would eat and it should give her a fairly even curve. I will be starting the insulin on Saturday so I can stay home to monitor her and they want to see her back at the vet for a glucose curve on Monday.

I am glad I went to Walmart for the supplies, though. The humulin n and syringes would have been $100 from my vet and I only paid $37 for 100 syringes and 100 units of insulin at Walmart.

What does everyone do for disposal of the syringes? My vet said if I bought the syringes from them, I could drop them off for free disposal; but since they were so much cheaper at Walmart, I just went that route and now I am curious as to how to dispose of them.

[CraigM]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

What does everyone do for disposal of the syringes? My vet said if I bought the syringes from them, I could drop them off for free disposal; but since they were so much cheaper at Walmart, I just went that route and now I am curious as to how to dispose of them.

Check with your local trash / garbage service. My service had given free service, just had to deliver to their office. This changed last year and they now charge $15, I think, but that includes the sharps container.

[sheureka]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

Disposal rules vary by state - in Arizona there are no rules at all. I clip the needle and put the whole thing in a disposal canister from Walmart. When it's full I just seal it and put it in the trash. - sheureka

[k9diabetes]

Re: Olive - Boston terrier, newly diagnosed

I think the idea that Olive will feed the insulin herself is extremely questionable and it would be much preferred that she have a meal and an injection since most dogs will adjust to that schedule after a while.

Among the problems with free feeding is that the insulin dose has to be matched to a quantity of food consumed and with free feeding the amount of food consumed could vary tremendously from one day to the next. Particularly with more than one dog in the house eating the same way. She might eat twice as much on day 3 as she does on day 4 - a recipe for either severely low or severely high blood sugar and for never getting her regulated.

The other, bigger problem is the idea that she will realize she needs some food to go with her insulin - that lowering blood sugar will make her hungry so she will eat and not go into hypoglycemia.

Even if she alerts herself - and I doubt that will be the case - because it takes time for food to be digested and converted to glucose in the stomach, she would have to alert herself to feed the insulin as much as an hour before her blood sugar is going low. I just don't think that's realistically going to happen.

I have low blood sugar experiences myself unrelated to diabetes and I definitely crave something to eat when my blood sugar is low - about the time it hits the 60s. But I definitely do not crave food to match this excess insulin an hour beforehand.

So I'm afraid that's just wishful thinking...

If, after trying for a while, she just absolutely refused to eat breakfast, there are other ways to handle that. But I think it's worth it for Olive's safety since uncontrolled hypoglycemia can kill her, to make an effort to get her to eat a meal before she gets her insulin injection and only look for a Plan B or C if that doesn't work for her.

Her regulation will be far better and consequently her health will be better in the long term if she gets into an established pattern of meals and injections with a consistent amount of food.

Natalie