Homemade Dog Food Questions

[MyNaj-a-Poo]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

I am so stressed at work this morning. I called home to check that Naj ate and received his insulin also if his urine was tested this morning and I was told his urine tested at moderate 40 again this morning...

Is this normal?

Yesterday morning it was moderate 40 but then around dinner at 6pm it was normal. I contacted the vet to have his transcript FAXed to the new vet. Hopefully by time I get off work at noon the new vet will have his information so I can take him in. They told me I can bring him but without those document he will have to test again for stuff he probably already tested for this week and I already paid the other vet...

So crazy.

[CraigM]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Welcome from Annie (Lhasa) and me! You'll find great advice and support on this forum. I make few posts, but read everyday. My general advice is to take a deep breath and realize that some dogs get well regulated, while others may seem to be a challenge. I THINK little things like "visits" from the UPS, FedEX person, or a visit from the grandkids, can affect BG. Even shifting Annie's meal time by 15 minutes makes a difference on the meter. Annie has an appointment with the groomer today so I expect strange readings when she gets home (stress)!

I test, feed and inject Annie twice a day 12 hours apart. I've been TRYING to test another two times 8 1/2 to 9 hours after each injection, if I'm awake, to see the low point. (Annie seems to have her lowest BG around +9 hours).

I see you are getting an AlphaTrak, that's what we use. Kathy mentioned FREESTYLE strips seem to be compatible with the AlphaTrak meter and might save you some money. Actually, it's the FREESTYLE LITE strips that I believe to be compatible, different from the plain FREESTYLE strips.

Craig & Annie

[We Hope]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Welcome from Annie (Lhasa) and me! You'll find great advice and support on this forum. I make few posts, but read everyday. My general advice is to take a deep breath and realize that some dogs get well regulated, while others may seem to be a challenge. I THINK little things like "visits" from the UPS, FedEX person, or a visit from the grandkids, can affect BG. Even shifting Annie's meal time by 15 minutes makes a difference on the meter. Annie has an appointment with the groomer today so I expect strange readings when she gets home (stress)!

I test, feed and inject Annie twice a day 12 hours apart. I've been TRYING to test another two times 8 1/2 to 9 hours after each injection, if I'm awake, to see the low point. (Annie seems to have her lowest BG around +9 hours).

I see you are getting an AlphaTrak, that's what we use. Kathy mentioned FREESTYLE strips seem to be compatible with the AlphaTrak meter and might save you some money. Actually, it's the FREESTYLE LITE strips that I believe to be compatible, different from the plain FREESTYLE strips.

Craig & Annie

Craig is right--it is the FreeStyle Lite that's very much like AlphaTrak; takes the same amount of blood for testing.

I think where the problem comes in with Naj going from negative to moderate on the ketones comes from the once a day Vetsulin.

It looks like he may hit a low from the large dose of insulin and the low triggers his body to go high from it. When that happens, this is how you wind up with the ketones.

Getting with the new vet and going into a two shot a day plan should solve this.

Kathy

[MyNaj-a-Poo]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Hi Craig and Annie... Thanks for being nice to me and Naj.

Welcome from Annie (Lhasa) and me! Craig & Annie

Thanks to everyone else for accepting us into the forum.. You guys are just wonderful.

peggy0
Margaret Boyle

Thanks to you both for the kind compliments on my Doggy photos.

and to k9diabetes for creating such a great forum!!!

Hey guys I went to see the NEW doctor today... Yippy!!! They were so nice. The place was so clean and the staff was awesome. It look just like a regular mini hospital. I loved it.

I spent 1 hour talking to the doctor. Actually TALKING and going over his records from the other vet line by line. The doc was Terrific! She went over EVERYTHING. She explained every single line of his bloodwork. His liver was elevated or something about his liver was elevated but she said it's nothing to worry about as though the liver, the kidney and glocuse all that stuff works together. Since there was a problem with the glucose it cause his liver and kidneys to work hard to clean his body. He had no signs in his blood for any type of infections. Thats good. The first day they took Naj blood at the other Vet his glucose was 356... She said it's high but she has seen numbers 700 and higher. This is a reasonable number that can be controlled at home. His urine test from Saturday was 136 ketones. She said that's not horribly bad but it's bad anytime there are ketones in the urine. I took my camera with me and showed her the fluctuation in the ketones I've been testing at home and how it was negative yesterday evening and high in the morning... She said exactly the same thing that Kathy (We Hope) said it was because of the insulin shot only once a day. So since he wasn't getting a second shot the ketones were being produced at night and once he got the shot in the morning it would regulated it only for a short time. But she did not believe that his ketones required hospitalization as though the insulin has been working to control it. The one shot was messing it up. So therefore she has changed his dose to 4 units in the am and 4 units in the pm and told me to feed him every 12 hours not the 9 hours as I was doing before.. So now I will feed him at 9 am and 9pm or 8 am and 8pm..

Thanks Kathy and everyone for telling me to bring this to the doctors attention. She said you guys were right. To regulate things they need 2 shots daily. So thanks everyone.

She also said that she would like to see us in 3 weeks. She want me to create a glucose curve in two weeks and check ketones and glucose every 3 days rotating the hours of testing for ketones and glucose. Keep a log and bring it to her in 3 weeks. She also stated Naj has slight Cataracts. When you look into his eyes they are cloudy not clear color. They don't look brown like there were before. She said some dogs develope cataracts with old age but many dogs with diabetes develope it sooner. She told me to expect his eyes to turn complete white he should still be able to see but not as clear and it's possible he could go blind. But not all dogs who have cataracts go blind. She said they do offer surgery for dogs with cataracts but it's very expensive. She don't even suggest because the dog doesn't always get 100%of their vision back. But it's still an option. She said I can contact her anytime if I have questions and she would be there to anwser them. The only time she can't talk to me right away is if she is in surgery, but I can leave a message and she guarantee to return the call before the end of the day. I like that. She gave me the number and address to a 24 hour pet hospital about 15 miles from my home. Because they close at 8 pm daily, the good part is they are open 7 days a week. Yah!!

The doctor also stated I can bring in Naj anytime to test his glucose on their monitor if I don't want to test him.

I love that place...

Oh and the best news is Naj gain weight since Saturday... He weighed 20.8 lbs today... and on Saturday he was 18.8 lbs

The bad is he still urinates a lot ( i mean he pee for like a whole 2 minutes) and drink lots of water. When we were at the vet today naj would cry to let me know he had to go... I would take him out. ( I took him out about 3 times in 1.5 hours.

This guy walked up to Naj and said boy you really had to go huh... What you been drinking. lol

Anyhow, The doc said once everything is getting closer to being regulated he should stop drinking as much and urinating so often. That's a plus.

Plus the doc gave me tons of information of pet diabetes and emergency situations. She told me that I need to go buy Karo and keep a bottle around the home just in case a time ever occur where Naj sugar is too low. To rub just a little on his gums.

Oh and he had a little tartar on his teeth.. She said If he let me just brush his teeth a couple times a week to remove it.

Yolanda

[MyNaj-a-Poo]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Thanks for this information.. This will save me tons of money. I just looked on ebay and found a box of 50 for $20 with $3 shipping or box of 100 for $45 also another pack for $20 with free shipping--- those prices are sure less than the alphatrak test sticks

I see you are getting an AlphaTrak, that's what we use. Kathy mentioned FREESTYLE strips seem to be compatible with the AlphaTrak meter and might save you some money. Actually, it's the FREESTYLE LITE strips that I believe to be compatible, different from the plain FREESTYLE strips.

Craig & Annie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Hi Yolanda,

Wow, it sounds like you had a really great vet visit and got great advice. I'm very happy for you and Naj! And thrilled to see that he's now on two injections a day. That should give him much better coverage and then can see if the dose needs to be increased.

I'm also happy to hear there is an emergency vet nearby. Not because of the diabetes even - it's just always good to know what your emergency resources are and a big plus to have an emergency vet nearby. Some of the people here who live in rural areas have very few and sometimes no options for care after hours.

The drinking and peeing should go back to normal once his blood sugar is more stable at low levels. I know both you and he look forward to that!

It isn't at all unusual for the liver enzymes to be a bit elevated when the diabetes has just been diagnosed and isn't controlled yet.

All good news! Congrats!!

Natalie

[CarolW]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Hi Yolanda,

I'm reading your thread with total delight! You're doing SO WELL - so glad your new vet is so great! What a relief!

About the markings on the syringes:

I don't know of any U 40 syringes that have half unit markings.

I don't know of any, either, but I use the U-100 syringes, because my Kumbi is on a U-100 insulin (Novolin-NPH). However, from the start, my vet would sometimes tell me to go by quarter-units!

Wow; on a small U-100 syringe (3/10 cc capacity), that is one SMALL adjustment! It's about one drop from that tiny needle!

Well, after a time, I learned I could put MARKS on syringes - if I'm careful how I do it. I use a magnifying glass at various stages.

My first syringe-marking came about when I learned from Kathy that if you inject with the bevel on the needle UP (facing your face, so to speak), that seems to be more comfortable for the dog.

So SUDDENLY, I took my permanent marker that has one fine end, and one very fine end, and I marked the needle-holder on the syringe so I could see quickly when the bevel is up (on such a small syringe).

There are pictures here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bevelup.php

You can scroll about half-way down the page to see a close-up drawing, too.

So, now that I've learned you can mark a syringe - how about marking those U-40 syringes, shortly before using them, at the half-unit level? You could probably estimate that by eye, and mark the place where, say, if your vet changes you to 4.5 units, you would measure to to get that dose.

I've turned into a Marker-Upper!

I'm SO happy for you and Naj! You're doing a really fabulous job, to change vets like that, so quickly, and get Naj into so much a better state, so fast!

Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:01:08 (PDT)

[MyNaj-a-Poo]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

CarolW, This is good information. I will make a sticky for myself that it's ok to mark the syringes for future use. Meanwhile the new vet reduce his daily dose to 8 units so as of now I give him 4 units in the am and 4 units in the pm. But I will remember just in case when we go back for our checkup that if it does come to situation like this I can mark those needles to be a half.

Natalie of k9iabetes stated the same thing that you can get into the middle of each unit it doesn't have to be exact as long as it's close.

That takes off a little stress there.

I just hope that his numbers come down soon as though when I tested him with the cheap walmart glucose meter it was at i think 337 -- I can't wait to receive the alphatrak monitor. Because that walmart cheapie only came with 10 FREE test sticks and first time trying to test him had some error readings and I had some wasted sticks. Because I had hard time trying to get blood out his ear and had to switch to to different areas of his lip also because not enough blood. So on the first time I tried 4 times before a successful reading.

I do have a question I forgot to ask the doctor.

Do I change the lancets everyday on the glucose monitor?

Hi So, now that I've learned you can mark a syringe - how about marking those U-40 syringes, shortly before using them, at the half-unit level? You could probably estimate that by eye, and mark the place where, say, if your vet changes you to 4.5 units, you would measure to to get that dose.

I'm SO happy for you and Naj! You're doing a really fabulous job, to change vets like that, so quickly, and get Naj into so much a better state, so fast!

Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:01:08 (PDT)

[MyNaj-a-Poo]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Does the bevel up make the burning go away??

Naj doesn't jump or move when I stick the needle under his skin but when I start injecting the insulin he look back and try to move some. The first vet who showed me how to inject him said it burn some. Just massage it around after you inject him

So SUDDENLY, I took my permanent marker that has one fine end, and one very fine end, and I marked the needle-holder on the syringe so I could see quickly when the bevel is up (on such a small syringe).

There are pictures here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bevelup.php

Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:01:08 (PDT)

[We Hope]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

If you're not warming the insulin before you give Naj his shot, this can be why it stings:

http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1003

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Insulin_use_tips

"Injecting cold from the refrigerator insulin can sting, regardless of what species, type or brand. Bringing the insulin to room temperature by removing it from the fridge before actually using it can help avoid painful injections. Warming the capped insulin syringe with your hands can have the same effect. Some people tuck the capped and filled syringe under their arm for a few minutes to warm it before use.

"Do NOT attempt to warm insulin using a stove, microwave, etc.; you may destroy the insulin by doing so."

The only insulin that seems to have burning or stinging connected with it no matter what you do is Lantus and this is because it's acid pH; all the rest are pH neutral.

Would advise you not to rub the spot where you give Naj his shot because doing that can speed up the insulin's absorption. This means Naj uses his insulin faster than normal and it could mean a low or hypo.

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki...body_condition

"Other factors modulating insulin absorption include regional blood flow which is affected by exercise, rubbing or massage, and temperature."

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Lancet

"Lancets may be used more than once, but they do lose their sharpness, making them more painful and less effective with each use. Therefore, you should consider using a new lancet after about 2 uses."

Marion,

You might see if you're giving Cara's shot with the needle's bevel side up.

http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showpost...33&postcount=9

The bevel is meant to slide under the skin--here you can see how it's pointed and angled, and how it could be painful and possibly tear the skin if it was turned upside down for a shot.

Lancets, like needles, can have their points blunted by repeated use. If you take a good look at the needle in the photos, it's already beginning to have a blunted point after one re-use.

This is the way the syringe should be pointed to give a shot--with the bevel side up.

On a U 40 syringe, you can see where a half unit would be much easier than on a U 100 one which isn't factory-marked for half scale (half units--only the 3/10 cc U 100 syringes which are labeled marked for half scale have this). Have done it with U 100's which weren't marked and with the U 40's, none of which are marked for half scale and it is a lot easier to do with the U 40 syringes.

I never marked any of the barrels for half scale and Lucky had wonderful bg's; he ran low and tight on pork Lente insulin; lower and tighter on Caninsulin/Vetsulin than on Lilly. Normal for him 8-10 hours after food and insulin was a bg of 85; never any hypos either.

HTH!

Kathy

[peggy0]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Hi Yolanda

I had this problem with Forbin until kathy and natalie told me that cold insulin STINGS I draw his shot before i start to get his meal ready. I give him his shot about 20 minutes after he eats. This gives it enough time to get the chill off and I believe its good practice as well to see that his meal is going to stay in his tummy. Forbin very seldom has stomach issues but you never know when they are having an off today.

[Dakotapix]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

As others have stated, having the bevel up on the needle while injecting seems to be less painful. I use a lighted magnifying glass to mark the bevel position with a black marker. If you inject immediately after loading the syringe, it may be the cold insulin causing discomfort. I usually place the loaded syringe under my arm for a couple minutes to warm it (needle cap on, of course). It seems to help.

I'd also recommend having your dog on a high table for these procedures. I use a half card table for mine for injecting and instilling eye drops. I believe these tables are available for around 30 bucks. They are close to the size of grooming tables at your pet center.

Does the bevel up make the burning go away??

Naj doesn't jump or move when I stick the needle under his skin but when I start injecting the insulin he look back and try to move some. The first vet who showed me how to inject him said it burn some. Just massage it around after you inject him

[MyNaj-a-Poo]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Ok. Now I understand. The insulin needs to be somewhat room temp. when injecting. Although he has only move on me one time so that must have meant the insulin was still too cold. But that day I went to the old vet and they gave him a shot for the first time he jump and start moving around a lot and the girl said oh that's because it burns. Just inject it very slow. Im so happy he doesn't go to that doctor no more.

His new doctor call my home around 8am this morning to check on Naj. That was so nice of her. She actually care! That makes believe this is the vet he needs to stay with.

The doctor would like me to bring a 12 hour curve to her in 2 weeks so we can see if Naj insulin needs to be readjusted.

I couldn't find any curve log anywhere on the internet. So I created a 12 hour log and I am going to upload it to my docstoc account. I will provide the link here so if any of you want to use it you can download it for FREE.

She would like me to test his BG every 3 days these are the results so far

Oct 18 @ 1:13 pm -- 337 (taken 4 hours after he had eating and 9 unit insulin shot. Day 2 on insulin)

Oct 20 @ 9:30 am -- 257 (this was taken about 1 minute after his 4 unit insulin shot and 30 minutes after he had eaten.
Day 4 on insulin)


===============
I couldn't find any curve log anywhere on the internet. So I created a 12 hour log and I am going to upload it to my docstoc account. I will provide the link here so if any of you want to use it you can download it for FREE.

I converted them to PDF format however, if you need them in another format where you can edit any of the information and make it more personal to your situation. Just let me know and I will upload it to my google docs account and send you the direct url to the hardcopy of my forms and you can then modify it to your pet.

The monthly log when I coverted it to PDF it cut off the Time below the date. So if if you want the non converted copy let me know.

Monthly Glucose Log

Every 2 hour BG Curve

7 Day BG Log Weekly

12 Hour Glucose Curve

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Ok. Now I understand. The insulin needs to be somewhat room temp. when injecting. Although he has only move on me one time so that must have meant the insulin was still too cold. But that day I went to the old vet and they gave him a shot for the first time he jump and start moving around a lot and the girl said oh that's because it burns. Just inject it very slow. Im so happy he doesn't go to that doctor no more.

His new doctor call my home around 8am this morning to check on Naj. That was so nice of her. She actually care! That makes believe this is the vet he needs to stay with.

The doctor would like me to bring a 12 hour curve to her in 2 weeks so we can see if Naj insulin needs to be readjusted.

I couldn't find any curve log anywhere on the internet. So I created a 12 hour log and I am going to upload it to my docstoc account. I will provide the link here so if any of you want to use it you can download it for FREE.

She would like me to test his BG every 3 days these are the results so far

Oct 18 @ 1:13 pm -- 337 (taken 4 hours after he had eating and 9 unit insulin shot)

Oct 20 @ 9:30 am -- 257 (this was taken about 1 minute after his 4 unit insulin shot and 30 minutes after he had eaten)

Hi Yolanda,

You certainly sound a lot happier now and I can assure you it WILL get a lot better.

Yes cold insulin hurts I have exactly the same regime as Peggy

You seem to have came on a very caring vet (who is going to work with you nicely) and this makes all the difference for you and your Naj

You will have up and down days Yolanda but we all get through them, no two dogs are the same there are so many variants.

I see Kathy and Natalie have gave you lots of excellent links, just take your time and read them when you can, there is a lot of knowledge here

I am so glad you are a lot happier

Hugs to you all.

[MyNaj-a-Poo]

Re: Welcome to Naj, MyNaj-a-Poo!

Yes, I am trying to be more happy. Especially that his numbers are going down and he's eating again and I will takes all the hugs we can get.. Thank you!!!

Hi Yolanda,

You certainly sound a lot happier now and I can assure you it WILL get a lot better.
Hugs to you all.

My Misti doesn't like the new dog food Blue Organic. So we've decided to keep her on Bil-Jac. I was trying to put them on the same dog food to cut cost. Bil-Jac cost about $45 per bag and Blue Organic is $56 per bag. So we've decided we would purchase a smaller bag for Misti as though she doesn't eat much about 6 oz or 3/4 cup per feeding. Naj is eating 1 1/2 cup or 12 oz per feeding

Both of my dogs has been picky eaters their entire life. When they were pups I went through so much food trying to find a brand they enjoyed. Going back and forth to the store exchanging for other brands. Then ran into a demonstrator selling bil-jac and he GUARANTEE my dog would eat their food and even gave me a voucher for a FREE bag if he liked it. Sure enough my dog ate the food. So that's what I bought their entire life.

A couple years ago our local petsmart stated they were going to stop selling bil-jac we were so concern and started the process all over again... Shopping for food! Same thing they were so picky... then they liked eukanunba natural. Petsmart then decided to keep selling bil-jacs just in limited selections. I guess I lot of people were not familiar with Bil-Jacs and since the cost is nearly $50 a bag people did not purchase much of it like the other brands.

I was sooooo worried when Naj was diagnosed because I thought for sure I wasn't going to find any foods he liked that was good for him.

I love k9Diabetes... this is such a wonderful forum!