Neuropathy

[Denise]

Hello! Old diabetic dog person with new issue. Never dealt with neuropathy but think that's what's going on. Murphy is skittish, lifting a rear leg occasionally, moving quickly and then sitting down. Acts like he feeling something he isn't liking in his rear end. Hard to explain but have ruled out urinary, constipation and glucose issues. No fever. Eating normally.

I know for cats people use B12 (the uncommon form, can't think of the name, methyl-something). Would like to know from diabetic dog people what they have done. Thanks.

Denise and Murph
14 year old Schnauzer dx'ed 2011
Humulin N, frozen raw, freeze dried raw and home made

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Neuropathy

Were his anal sacs checked at the same time as the constipation? Sounds like that could be causing this.

I will dig up some b12 info for you when I have a bit more time later on today.

Tara

[Eddie]

Re: Neuropathy

Hello
I'm certainly no expert but when our dog experienced what everyone here thought was neuropathy it took the form of him being unable to use his back legs as if they had gone completely numb. When he lay down they were floppy and it was also as if he could either not feel or not control his tail and he would end up lying on it at a funny angle.

We did put him on B12 Methyl which may have helped but to be honest the description of what your dog is doing does sound rather different so it might be worth exploring other possibilities first.

Antonia

[Patty]

Re: Neuropathy

Hi Denise! Good to see you.

Most of the neuropathy descriptions I've heard of with diabetic dogs have been more numbness/decreased sensation and weak rear end/difficulty walking issues.

Sounds like a shooting pain type of thing maybe Murphy has going on? I wonder if he has a pinched nerve, spinal issue, or other neuro condition causing the quick movements.

Just a thought.
Patty

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Neuropathy

Here is the b12 info that was shared with me on an epi forum. I think wether this a nueropathy situation or not b12 would be a good idea. Hope it helps.


From a published Japanese study:
New evidence suggests that oral B12 works as well as injections, according to a study published in the journal Blood. This verifies reports from Sweden dating from the 1970s that pernicious anemia, a disease of B12 deficiency, can be controlled with oral B12. (people with pernicious anemia lack the intrinsic factor).
*But another form, methylcobalamin, may be the best of all. Research shows that this active form of B12 has the unique ability to provoke the regeneration of nerves without adverse side effects.

And this from another study, Division of Neurology, KingKhalid University Hospital, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia:
We studied the clinical and neurophysiological effects of methylcobalamin on patients with diabetic neuropathy. In a double-blind study, the active group showed statistical improvement in the somatic and autonomic symptoms with regression of signs of diabetic neuropathy.
Methylcobalamin,which is the neurologically active form of B12.This B12 facilitates methylation, the process that creates and maintains nerves and brain chemicals.


The clinical study concerning B12/folate lowering BS is from the European Journal of Endrocrinology:
CONCLUSIONS: Folate and vitamin B12 treatment improved insulin resistance and endothelial dysfunction, along with decreasing homocysteine levels, in patients with metabolic syndrome.
http://www.eje-online.org/content/151/4/483.abstract

Tara

[k9diabetes]

Re: Neuropathy

Did this happen abruptly? Another possibility is limber tail - I'd never heard of it until it happened to Jack.

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/coldtail.html

He wouldn't sit at all and was very antsy all the time because it's very painful.

Neuropathy usually shows up as weakness and inability to stand up.

Natalie

[Denise]

Re: Neuropathy

Sorry for not getting back sooner and thank you for your replies. I didn't get the notifications that there had been replies as I was expecting.

2 days after I posted, Murphy stopped the odd behavior and then yesterday it started again but not as severe as it was before. I did a curve and did catch his bg high at one point so have adjusted insulin a bit and got him going on B12.

Haven't seen it today. ??? Been messaging his lower back and hips.

I can apply pressure anywhere, tail, legs or back without a reaction from him. Kind of at a loss but if it comes back to as severe as it was we will def see the vet for some imagining to see if anything is going on. Anal glands are checked every 8 weeks when groomed and he's never had that problem but gets groomed Monday so will know for sure.

Heck, it's so cold here now (only 3 degrees this morning and to get colder) that we are all walking funny!

Thanks again!

[jenny]

Re: Neuropathy

Good to her Murphy feeling a bit better!
Stay warm and layer up!

[momofdecker]

Re: Neuropathy

The description you provided does not sound anything like what my Decker experienced, but I did want to pass along that he had on/off rear leg weakness for about seven months before it progressed. Every time I brought it up, his vet would check his rear legs, hips, etc... By the time we got him to a neurologist nearly a year later we found out the cause was a lesion in his cervical spine (C1-C5 neck area). Prior to that I'd had no idea that a neck injury could impact the rear legs. Like I said, the symptoms you posted are not anything like what Decker experienced, but having the neck area evaluated may be worth considering if the symptoms continue to come and go.