Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

[Kodah007]

I'm new here and may be too late for this discussion. Our 8 year old husky was in diabetic ketoacidosis 4 days ago. 3 nights on fluid at vet, started insulin, steroids and pain meds. She cannot walk on her own, like her hind legs are totally numb. She's also been going potty on herself at vet. I'm really worried she won't get better and I don't have the time to be carrying her around and/or cleaning up messes. How long can I expect this yo last? Do all dogs recover?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

Hi,

I decided to copy your question to a thread of your own... so sorry such a scary experience brings you here.

If she can get past the ketoacidosis, whatever leg problems and incontinence coming from neuropathy should gradually diminish with better blood sugar.

Most dogs I've seen have fully recovered from neuropathy. Sometimes a dog has other spinal issues also involved and in those cases the problems associated with neuropathy go away so things get better.

So, yes, chances are very good she can get back to normal. Beaming her Get Well wishes.... hang in there.

Natalie

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

Hi there,

If the sole cause of weakness in the backend is diabetic neuropathy, and it could well be, they can recover and go on to be healthy diabetics. Surviving diabetic ketoacidosis can take quite a toll on them and I would not judge her condition now as long as she isn't suffering. weakness isn't a lot of fun for either of you but they can get back to normal.

I will attach some info about a key role a specific form of B-12 (methylcobalimin) plays in recovery.
Many dogs here have struggled with hind end weakness. Has the B-12 helped in these cases? I don't know, but it hasn't hurt.

The single most important thing you can do now is to find the best dose to manage her diabetes. This can be a trying process. To tell the truth this was the best place I found for getting the best information about how to go about that. My dog wasn't an easy diabetic and frankly my vets didn't know what to do to make our situation better. Folks here helped us tremendously. The collective knowledge and creativity was a godsend.

I found that I couldn't rely on just the guidance from my vet and some stories I have heard have been downright scary. The best advice I can give is read a lot from the home page and threads, ask a bunch of questions and if at all possible give home testing a try. Doing your own home testing not only saves you money and keeps your dog safe, but it will help you progess through the regulation process a bit quicker.

I will go grab the home page link for you and the b-12 info. Just don't want to lose this post. The ipad sometimes doesn't like me switching around.

Tara
____________

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

You may have already found these links, but just incase:

http://www.k9diabetes.com

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/


From a published Japanese study:
New evidence suggests that oral B12 works as well as injections, according to a study published in the journal Blood. This verifies reports from Sweden dating from the 1970s that pernicious anemia, a disease of B12 deficiency, can be controlled with oral B12. (people with pernicious anemia lack the intrinsic factor).
But another form, methylcobalamin, may be the best of all. Research shows that this active form of B12 has the unique ability to provoke the regeneration of nerves without adverse side effects.

And this from another study, Division of Neurology, KingKhalid University Hospital, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia:
We studied the clinical and neurophysiological effects of methylcobalamin on patients with diabetic neuropathy. In a double-blind study, the active group showed statistical improvement in the somatic and autonomic symptoms with regression of signs of diabetic neuropathy.
Methylcobalamin,which is the neurologically active form of B12.This B12 facilitates methylation, the process that creates and maintains nerves and brain chemicals.


The clinical study concerning B12/folate lowering BS is from the European Journal of Endrocrinology:
CONCLUSIONS: Folate and vitamin B12 treatment improved insulin resistance and endothelial dysfunction, along with decreasing homocysteine levels, in patients with metabolic syndrome.
http://www.eje-online.org/content/151/4/483.abstract

[jebsmom]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

Hi and welcome.

Many dogs recover from ketoacidosis. My dog had it when he was first diagnosed and it was very scary. He was unable to walk the first few days and then had hind leg weakness that gradually decreased. By the second or third week, it was gone. It's been a year and a half now and he's doing well. So there is hope, especially since you've found the forum and all the knowledge, wisdom, and kindness that's here.

Is your girl home yet? I think it's possible the accidents she's had at the vet may not occur at home. Just being at the vet can be really stressful and, with ketoacidosis, she's been extremely sick. I'm glad you're here and hope she recovers quickly.

Glennys

[Eddie]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

Hello and welcome
Our dog had rear end neuropathy just after he was first diagnosed. he was unable to stand or walk without us helping him. As we got his insulin dose sorted out it gradually and quite slowly improved. He is now fine and can run and stand on his back legs eg to greet visitors at the gate so you would never know there had been anything wrong.
I would not have believed such a turnaround was possible if it had not been for people on this forum telling me about their own experiences. (Our vet did not recognise what the problem was).
I have no experience of ketoacidosis so this may be irrelevant but I did just notice that you say your dog is getting steroids. Usually they make it harder to get the insulin balanced with the food so most try to avoid their use if possible (but given that no-one else has commented, perhaps they are just a necessary evil with the ketoacidosis).
Our dog was never incontinent (though he couldn't lift his leg for ages!) so I do suspect, as Jebsmom says, that it may be because of the stress of being at the vet rather than the neuropathy perhaps.
I hope she improves - it is rather miraculous to see the recovery from this problem!
Antonia
PS We gave him a LOT of B12 Methyl. The vet had told us he could not walk because had tumours which would finish him off within three weeks (as of November last year!) so we reckoned we had little to lose from any risk of overdosing. The vet did not really accept that the leg problem was all related to the diabetes so this forum really was our lifeline (almost literally!)

[amydunn19]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

My Maggie recovered nicely from ketoacidosis but it was questionable for a day or two. They look terrible at the emergency vet. They told me that Maggie would not even lift her head for a day and a half before I was allowed to visit her. I think they thought if I saw how bad she was, I would take their advice and put her to sleep. They wheeled her in the room and I spoke to her and petted her head. She perked up immediately and stood up wagging her tail. The vet then just said, "Never mind, I think she will be fine now". I am sure that doesn't always happen but Maggie has a chronic type of separation anxiety so my theory was she had a deep depression going on with a life threatening illness. I always feel like and hope I will be able to look in those eyes and tell whether she wants to fight or if she is ready to go.

Fingers and paws crossed for a speedy recovery - I know how heart wrenching it is to see them in pain. My girl has also had some severe pancreatitis attacks, too.

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

I have no experience of ketoacidosis so this may be irrelevant but I did just notice that you say your dog is getting steroids. Usually they make it harder to get the insulin balanced with the food so most try to avoid their use if possible (but given that no-one else has commented, perhaps they are just a necessary evil with the ketoacidosis).

Antonia

Good catch Antonia, I missed the steroid part completely.

Likewise my only experience with DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) is through reading about it here, but I don't understand what role they play in treating DKA and I would certainly think the side effects of raising the blood sugar would out weigh the benefits.

There is a really good link to an article on DKA which I will post a link to in another post. I don't remember it mentioning steroids.

If your girl stays on the steroids it will be really important to wean her off them gradually (depending on how long she is on them for) and to closely monitor her insulin needs as she comes off them. Insulin needs can decrease dramatically when steroids are decreased and stopped.

Don't be scared by this.... just take a deep breath and we can get you through it. Many folks have had to go the steroid route for one reason or another and can help you through it. It sure would be easier for a newly initiated dog and caregiver though if you didn't have to deal with it.

Tara

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

If you scroll down on this page you'll see a section on DKA.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/complinks.html

also this:

http://solvitproducts.com/products-l..._ls-i91_i.aspx

It's a rear harness that I was able to get on ebay for $25 that helps me get my Labby up the stairs at night. It has straps that also go around the rear legs that can be adjusted so it doesn't put as much pressure on the belly and internal organs. Maggie usually hates wearing anything and she doesn't seem to mind this.

Tara

[jebsmom]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

For whatever it's worth, Jeb was not given steroids when he had DKA.

[jesse girl]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

my jesse did not have steroids either

she had dka , pancreatitis and had an operation for a uterus infection at the same time all those things by themselves are life threatening she was younger 5.5 years i believe

i think amy makes a good point on visiting her pup . thats something i really believe helps a dog. i visited jesse every day and the vet was fine with that i would sit on the floor and talk to her. i would ask her if she wants to stay and there goes the ears moving and eyes looking at me and she perked up so i new she wanted to stay and i was going to do my best for her

[kaibosmom]

Re: Ketoacidosis and neuropathy - can my dog recover?

I am glad that I found this thread. I am currently researching diabetic neuropathy in dogs. My page is really outdated and I apologize for that. So much has happened to Kaibo recently. I will update on the weekend. Anyway, long story short (for here) is that we took him to a specialist recently as early in December he suddenly had hip troubles. The specialist in Calgary briefly mentioned nerve damage from his poorly controlled diabetes. When we returned home, he had a different emergency issue but it did allow us time to discuss his diabetes with the IMS. She basically wrote off the idea of diabetic neuropathy but placed most of the issues (muscle atrophy, weight loss, hind end weakness, now unable to walk…well, can move a bit) on the fact that he had Cushing's disease (from an adrenal tumour; had successful adrenalectomy in July). I guess I am at the point where I think the B12 might be worth trying. I hope to read the links on the weekend and figure out a dose for him.