vetsulin vs Novolin

[pixiegirl]

Let me start by saying, I've read the older threads on this. Connor was diagnosed about a year and 2 months ago. He's never been regulated really well, at least not by my standards. However my vet said that his numbers are not atypical of a dog using human insulin. In the mornings his numbers are way high, usually over 300 but under 400.

Once he eats and get his shot (9 units 2x per day for 70 lb Airedale) his glucose levels come down and often he needs a few treats mid way thru the day because he goes under 90. Other days his numbers stay higher 250+ and I exercise him more than normal to bring them down.

I work from home so I'm lucky that I'm able to sort of control him this way. We've tried different foods, adding fiber, all sorts of things but this seems to be how Connor rolls.

My vet went to a conference a few months back about canine diabetes and he said every speaker there and every vet he talked to is now going with Vetsulin over human insulin. And my vet feels it would be good for us to try it on Connor. That we might achieve better control of his glucose levels.

However he knows that I'm financially tapped out. In the past 3 years with Connor I've spent well over 10k trying to figure out what is wrong with him. We've seen so many specialists and had so many tests. We still are not sure that its just diabetes but that's what it is right now.

I know that Vetsulin is more expensive than Walmart Novolin (not sure how much more) and I really feel the collective knowledge here is at least on par with my very forward thinking, Tuffts trained, always keeping up, general practitioner vet. He's great and has a fantastic Animal Hospital with all the latest technology, AAHA accreditation, but he doesn't deal with diabetes every day all day like we do.

So I'd like to know if some of you here have some stories. A lot of what I've gotten from Google is older. Thanks for your help. Today is Connor's birthday, he's 5!!

Susan

[amydunn19]

Re: vetsulin vs Novolin

So good to see you and Connor again and Happy Birthday to Connor!

The thing about this diabetes thing is some dogs do better on nph, some do great on vetsulin, some can do great on both, and some can do better on neither but go to different types. I know that doesn't help much in deciding what to do. But, truthfully, if you have tried nph with mixed results, then why not try vetsulin? I had a friend whose westie never did good on nph but was forced onto it when vetsulin was taken off the market. She never got the same control with nph.

One thing I was wondering about is using "R" insulin along with the nph. Several people have done that here(Craig is one I know of). Using the fast acting R to combat the highs might help you. I have never done it but many people have here. Maybe they will chime in. I think you can buy it at walMart as well.

[farrwf]

Re: vetsulin vs Novolin

I agree with Amy's assessment of your situation. Certainly, each dog is going to react differently to different insulins, and you will have to "experiment" with Connor to determine if there is a significant difference in how the insulins work for him.

It may be worthwhile to try the Vetsulin to see if you get better results.

[CraigM]

Re: vetsulin vs Novolin

Agree with the others. Some pups might do better with one type of insulin over the other.

About the cost difference: I think many are getting Vetsulin for about $50-60 for a vial that holds 400 units of insulin, whereas Novolin-N purchased at Walmart cost $25 for 1000 units. Using Vetsulin, assuming you would end up also injecting about 18 units per day, the vial would last 22 days. Another thing would possibly be the cost of the U-40 syringes, they are(?) more expensive than the U-100 syringes. Then there's the fact that Vetsulin requires a prescription and would probably only be found locally from a vet clinic.

Having said all that, the few extra $$ might be worth it if your pup gets better results from Vetsulin. (not very much help, sorry)

Craig

[jesse girl]

Re: vetsulin vs Novolin

i believe the trend will be a return to vetsulin as the standard i dont believe nph is approved for animals but during that time that it was not used in the states this was one of the alternatives and does work adequately for many dogs .

i think the reason it was removed off the shelves is instability . i really dont think it was the insulin itself but how difficult a dogs body can adapt to the new reality of injectable insulin and the difficulty figuring the correct dose

i understand the frustration i still to this day cant guess what jesses numbers are when i am about to test its not much different from her first test

for jesse nph was the only choice so i had to make it work for her and as amy suggested we incorporated a fast acting insulin 3 shots a day and some different food combinations and of coarse adjustments to insulin at fasting .

i have reduced the dose and raised. no dose remains constant no more than a couple weeks . seeing numbers above the 200s is rare and low blood sugar also . i would love to see numbers the same everyday and on occasion we do and thats jesse reality my goal is to keep her below 200 for most of the day and above 90 and many times we get there which is amazing for jesse instability .

i think possibly there can be mild overdosing going on where times the dose maybe ok and other times its not creating the instability . the body is not static its constantly in change and i have seen this in jesse

the change in insulin could create a reset where you start at a lower dose to rule out maybe mild overdosing and slowly bring the dose up to stable blood sugar but elevated even if the numbers dont improve then you have an answer and wont reflect back wondering if i should had given it a shot

if you do decide to do this maybe give it a specific amount of time before you decide whether to continue or go back to nph .

i think more research needs to be done analyzing curves and come to some general agreement what the numbers may tell us . all this great technology means nothing if we dont know what really is going on and the coarse of action

[pixiegirl]

Re: vetsulin vs Novolin

My vet has Rx NPH insulin for a long time but he came back from the conference really surprised/impressed with the info he got there. He said most of the vets that specialize in diabetes in dogs were all using vetsulin now. The info I could get said that it is much closer to what a dogs natural insulin is. According to the company that makes it, it's the exact same amino acid sequence. Honestly I don't like the idea of give a dog a product made for people.

I've asked about fast acting insulin before but honestly my vet thinks we could get in serious trouble with it. Connor will have a week of good numbers. The a few days of high numbers then boom a 65. And because we have some seriously low numbers (a 46 2 weeks ago) the fear is that more insulin would do him in.

Just for the record, I not only weight all his food on a scale but his treats for the day are factored in and doled out the exact same every single day We did try some W/D (I think that's what it was) when Connor was first diagnosed and he did OK on it but he has allergies to grains so I switched him to Orijen Adult. Maybe a different food would help but this food is good stuff!

I'm just not sure I can afford the vetsulin but if it would level him out I might have too.

Thanks!

Susan

[amydunn19]

Re: vetsulin vs Novolin

It sounds like you are sold on it so I say go for it. Since Connor is not doing well on nph, you have nothing to lose.

Vetsulin has always been the favored insulin with vets because they sell it and it is most like their natural insulin, that is true. It seems funny that now that it is back on the market, some vets are kind of trashing nph. Nph sure saved alot of dogs when vetsulin was removed from the market. As I said before, all dogs are different and I would hate for anyone who is getting good control with nph to start doubting it because people are saying negative things about it. My dog has done great on it and I don't care what species it is designed for but if she wasn't doing well, I would not hesitate to find something else. I think everyone has to look at it like that.

As far as the food, it is a matter of the food working with the insulin. Sometimes, good stuff doesn't make a great partner with insulin. I learned very quickly with my dog's problems,I had to keep her pancreatitis at bay first. I like her food now but it is not perfect - low glycemic needs some propping up for her. If the food was made out of dirt and made her numbers stable and not flare up pancreatitis, then it would be dirt morning and night.

[farrwf]

Re: vetsulin vs Novolin

• Vetsulin is ~$40 for 400 units of insulin, which is about 10¢ a unit.
  
  
• Walmart's ReliOn Novolin is ~$25 for 1000 units, which is about 2.5¢ an insulin unit.
  
  
• You use ~540 units a month (30x9x2)

You're talking around $50 a month for Vetsulin vs $25+ for the Novolin.

Doesn't sound like a deal breaker. Go for it, and see how it works for Connor.