Patty's Ali - my precious, beautiful angel

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Patty's Ali

Hi Patty,

Sorry I missed your going I was on holiday at my Brother's and his wife.

I loved your photo's (looks very familiar I use a box too when I am travelling)
Ali looks very comfortable and relaxed.

You have had a few hiccups along the way-------nothing you couldn't cope with.

Patty I wish you and your husband good house hunting and hope you find something soon

I know all about moving Patty we were in the RAF paratroops for 12 years.

Give Ali a big hug for me.

Take care

Margaret

[Patty]

Re: Patty's Ali

Thanks all! It's great to be able to post here to everyone. You all know the challenges we can have at home and understand how crazy taking them on the road can be.

Margaret, wow 12 years huh. You get to be a pro at the moving part .

Ali's set up a new pattern that I though was simply a result of riding in the car without as much movement but it's persisting. She's taken to skyrocketing after her 2nd mealtimes (at 4 hours post injection). Yesterday afternoon she'd climbed to 363 by hour 8 1/2. I couldn't let her climb until hour 12. She'd be close to 500. The day before she was 417 for her evening injection, having climbed from the low 200s. So knowing she'd simply climb, I gave her the smallest dose of Humalog I could measure. I think it was about 1/8u.

I managed to stop the rise and she held steady until injection time. I bumped up her insulin slightly last night then. She only came down to 254 last night as I spot checked her to be sure she didn't have any fast drops going on. Then shot back up to 369 this morning.

I am at the end of how long I like to use a bottle of N, so I have a new one to pick up tomorrow. I suspect it's just all the change going on but want to rule out other things as well.

Last year when we came home she ran high too. I felt like I couldn't keep her from creeping into the 400s even raising her insulin a full unit. I remember taking out all her rice to finally try to get a handle on things. I did take out her lentils today and so far haven't gotten the big spike.

Taking one day at a time and playing reactive medicine for right now. I'm starting to find a bit of a schedule here, so hoping the consistency of that will help too.

Take care,
Patty and my sweet Ali-girl

[eyelostit]

Re: Patty's Ali

Just stopping by to say HI

dolly

[Noodle]

Re: Patty's Ali

Ah, comfy and traveling in style. I love the new photo of her in profile - the eye lashes on that girl!

I'm sorry her numbers have been so effected by the move and traveling. It's so stressful when you are worrying about their vision as well. I hope things will settle a bit and that she gets back to normal after you reach Colorado and she slips back into a normal routine.

How is she handling the heat around here? Sometimes Noodle takes a few steps out the door for a potty break and then stops and looks at me like, "Are you kidding me?!" - lol. It was so humid today after it rained that I swear his eyeballs must have been fogging up. You could see steam rising from the stone pavers around my flower bed in front. Crazy!

[Patty]

Re: Patty's Ali

Thanks Daisy. I'm hoping things settle down for her too. Today is looking better so far. Starting 300 and coming down so I'm hopeful we're headed in the right direction even if we're not quite there yet.

This humidity is crazy. I know the rain is needed. The cracks in the ground are huge from how dry it's been. But the rain made the comfort level worse that's for sure. I can just see the expression on Noodle's face. Ali actually barked at the thunder yesterday morning when she went out, LOL. There was a big boom and she turned around and let out a single bark. What a nut.

Patty

[diggydog]

Re: Patty's Ali

U should move to Scotland - nothing more predictable than rain every day lol

[peggy0]

Re: Patty's Ali

I could do with some rain every day here. its 105F. Yikes

[diggydog]

Re: Patty's Ali

We are predicted a "high" of 57F today with yup you guessed it rain, rain and more rain

[Patty]

Re: Patty's Ali

Well, I just can't get Ali's bgs down. She's up to about 8u. For a dog that's sensitive to 1/8u changes that's quite an increase. And without her lentils no less. I'm seeing signs she may have a UTI.

I took a free catch sample in to the vet to see if they saw any bacteria. They found red and white blood cells as well as some bacteria. It was a very small sample so I wanted a better one to send out for culture and sensitivity.

I've always scheduled a cysto before but I don't want to put her through that right now with everything else we've had going on. I'm going to catch a sample in the morning to send out.

I've also usually waited for the report to come back to start her on the right antibiotic because she's shown some resistance in the past to a few (Amoxicillin, Ampicillin, and Cephalexin with a Citrobacter growth). But...she's just so miserable and her bgs won't leave the 300-400s alone. She comes down briefly to touch the high 100s or low 200s and heads back up. Tonight after she started at 298 and rose 100 points I gave her an extra 1/4 to 3/8u to help. Since she's been heading back up bg-wise(which isn't her usual pattern) I'm not worried about duration overlap in giving her the extra at hour 1.

Her eyes are also looking cloudier to me...but then that's my worry coming through too.

I've pulled out all of her previous culture reports from her urine and vaginal cultures. It looks like Clavamox is sensitive on all of them but one (shows Intermediate during an e.coli growth) and the same with Baytril (Enrofloxacin Intermediate on a Beta hemolytic strep growth).

Trimethoprim/Sulpha and Marbofloxacin (Zeniquin) are also sensitive on all of them. But I never hear of vets offering these as suggestions. Anyone have any experience with these two?

I'm thinking of getting her started on an antibiotic right away then switching if we have to once the culture comes back. Typically I wouldn't do it this way, but I'm really reaching for a jump start on this one. Moving, needing to travel again this week, and having an infection are really taking their toll on her this time around.

I'll chat with the vet here tomorrow and ask what shape bacteria he saw - whether rods or cones to get an idea what we might be dealing with to get started.

Any thoughts on drugs?
Patty

[peggy0]

Re: Patty's Ali

Hi Patti,

I've used Baytril and Clavamox with better results using the Clavamox. Do you think Ali is stressed out from the trip and that may be bothering him?

[Patty]

Re: Patty's Ali

Thanks Peggy. I do think the stress probably threw things off balance and bacteria are such opportunistic buggers.

I'm not sure whether this is a vaginal or urinary infection. I had my husband drop off the new sample for send out this morning. We have an appt this afternoon and I'll have him swab another sample of the vulvar area to send.

Either way I think she's in need of an antibiotic. We'll see if they both grow something. She hovered in the low 200s all through the night. Then, this morning she started at 297 and rose to 425 in 30 minutes! I'd given 8 units and added another 1/4+u on top of the that due to how far she rose. She's still 340s 3 hours later now.

Poor girl. We just went outside for a bit. We'll see what she is at hour 4 for her 2nd meal and maybe add 1/8-1/4u Humalog to bring her down.

Her tummy gurgles loudly when she high and rising like this morning's rise.
P

[CarolW]

Re: Patty's Ali

My vets had Kumbi on a long course of Clavamox and Baytril simultaneously; the combination did a good job - that was for his left anal gland, which was his weak infection-area!

Dr. Amanda said the Baytril was to work with any e.coli element.

Wishing you and Ali lots of luck with weather and trip in general!

Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:52:53 (PDT)

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Patty's Ali

Hi Patty,

If it is any help Lucy was put on Norodine, this is an antibiotic that is supposed to work well if they have been resistant too other antibiotics.

Look it up Patty on the net it gives you some information about it, I am not good at posting links Patty-------not like you computer buffs (Ha Ha).

Lucy has to be on the Norodine for 3 months and they are doing in house samples and doing a culture at the end of the 3 months.
If infection is still there after the culture they will keep her on it for a further 3 months.

Then I think it will be a small dose indefinately.---I am not being too optimistic Patty, I will see how it all works out!!!

I hope they get the right antibiotic for Ali it is no joke when they are sensitive to a few it is getting the right one Patty.
Lucy and Ali are very similar----with their UTI's and vaginal infections.
They are wee troupers Patty.

Hope things go well Ali might be a bit stressed as well with the travelling, and everything that is going on!!!


Hugs

Margaret

[O'Riley]

Re: Patty's Ali

Patty,

I read an excellent article a couple of months ago that said the amount of contamination in a mid-stream clean catch specimen is so small when compared to the amount of bacteria that would be present due to infection, that is was easy to discern by the bacterial count whether the sample was contaminated. Whether this is always true, I don't know, because it seems that most vets insist on going the cysto or catheter route. I recently told the vet that I didn't want my Basenji to have a cysto because the position would stress her orthopedic repairs, so the vet tech took her outside and did the soup ladle thing. The report from Antech said there was no bacteria to culture. It was an interesting experience that made me doubt whether I'll put my dogs through cysto's or catheters again....not to mention the extra expense. (The cat is a different story). The article also detailed the various bacteria that can be introduced via catheterization, and that, too, was an eye opener. Anyway, I think you made a good decision not having Ali go through the cysto since it would make her even more uncomfortable than she already is, but also because it just may not be a necessary procedure.

I'm curious about the laboratory you use. Our culture and sensitives from Antech show either "S" or "R"; there is no Intermediate.

Re: antibiotics, our newest vet has Riley on Clavamox AND Clindamycin --a combo that is working well so far. Apparently the clavulanic acid works synergistically with Clindamycin, resulting in a boost.

I, too, have wondered about the other antibiotics that are listed as "sensitive". Probably vets are limited to what they have on hand. I'm trying to get written prescriptions that I fill online or at CostCo. It's much less expensive for me this way even with overnight delivery factored in. The markup at most veterinary offices is quite high. Our old vet who originally prescribed Riley's Clavamox charged twice as much per pill than CostCo. He punished me for wanting to save money by charging me $10 for writing the prescription (one of the many reasons he's our old vet). I think that eventually vets will have to come to realize that as owners, we want to avail ourselves of the benefit of the broader array of drugs that are available through dedicated pharmacies -- that, and better prices!

I think jumpstarting Ali on a broad spectrum antibiotic is a perfectly sound idea.

~Rosey

[Joan]

Re: Patty's Ali

Patty I am so sorry to hear of Ali's troubles on your trip.
A broad spectrum is a good idea for sure till you get the results back from the C&S. Almost any of them such as Clavamox will prevent further growth of the bacteria till you get the lab results and find the best one.

All labs are different, here in Western Canada, the results come back with a quantitative measure for resistance 1-10. The TPS you mentioned is quite effective for some bacteria, but lots of side effects. I have used it safely for 2 pugs, but try to stay away from it if possible and use it as a last resort. Once you find the correct one for Ali, I would use it till you are settled, even if she tests negative in a wk or so. 3 wks is a good idea to start with, as we have found that re-occurrences are more common than not.

Our diabetic pug has never had a UTI, so cant comment on that, but these handicapped pugs (5) are so prone to that as I express their bladders manually, so unfortunately I have been through this a lot. BTW I would never use a catheter on a female, have used cystos on occasion, but never found any difference from a free catch.

Praying for you in your travels, for safety and health.

Hugs Joan

Maybe we can meet for coffee, leaving here in early Oct, and going right through Colorado Springs on the way to Texas.....with all 9.