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  • #1

    Diabetic dog panting excessively

    Hi, I'm new here.

    I was just wondering if anyone could offer some suggestions of what might be causing my dog's excessive panting.

    Sabel - Red Heeler - 11 years old - diagnosed 2 1/2 years ago with diabetes -- currently using Novalin N (replacement of Humalin N about 1 year ago) -- Dosage 20 units twice a day using a U 100 syringe --

    Sabel recently started panting a ton after our vet advised us to up her dose of insulin to 20 units twice a day because of a high (489) blood test at our last visit. That was about 2 weeks ago. Our family went on a trip and kenneled our dogs, just after the increased dosage. So we weren't around to monitor the first week of increased dose. This week Sabel has been panting all day, even when our a/c is cooling the house. We monitor her water intake, because even when her levels are stable she drinks water til she pees from just moving. We take her out several times a day, even more on days we are home all day.

    I was reading about Somogyi rebound and was wondering if this can cause excessive panting? I thought I would post my questions because it can get overwhelming trying to read everything dealing with k9 diabetes.


    Thanks in advance!
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  • #2
    Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

    Welcome to the forum!
    How much does Sabel weigh? What is she eating? Feeding only twice a day along with the insulin? And between meal snacks?

    Might you have results of the blood glucose test(s) done at the clinic, or did the vet base the dosage on the single reading?

    Craig
    Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

      Originally posted by Mama2Furries View Post
      because it can get overwhelming trying to read everything dealing with k9 diabetes.
      Soooo overwhelming.

      How much does your dog weigh?

      Was the increase was done based on a spot check instead of a full curve?

      Do you test at home?

      Sometimes dogs can pant due to high numbers.

      The excessive drinking even when diabetes is controlled makes me think of Cushing's, but if the vet is only spot checking bgs there is no way to know if she is truly regulated.

      As much info as you can give us will help us to help you.

      Tara
      Tara in honor of Ruby.
      She was a courageous Boston Terrier who marched right on through diabetes, megaesophagus, and EPI until 14.
      Lucky for both of us we found each other. I'd do it all again girly.

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      • #4
        Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

        Wondering also if Sabel is spayed?

        Tara
        Tara in honor of Ruby.
        She was a courageous Boston Terrier who marched right on through diabetes, megaesophagus, and EPI until 14.
        Lucky for both of us we found each other. I'd do it all again girly.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

          Originally posted by CraigM View Post
          Welcome to the forum!
          How much does Sabel weigh? What is she eating? Feeding only twice a day along with the insulin? And between meal snacks?

          Might you have results of the blood glucose test(s) done at the clinic, or did the vet base the dosage on the single reading?

          Craig

          Sabel weighs 54lbs, and is spayed. I feed her twice a day, 1 1/2 cups of beneful. Other dog foods gave her diarrhea. She usually doesn't get snacks in between. Every once in a while we'll buy pig ears as a treat. The vet did not do a full blood glucose test, they've just taken her reading when we go in.

          Today is the first day I had a chance to test her at home. we just got a blood monitor. It is the ReliOn Prime. Before feeding her level was 421 mg/dL. Half an hour later it was 518. She received 19 units of insulin.

          A few other things I forgot to mention are that Sabel has a softball size tumor inside her abdomen, I feel this may have some connection to the diabetes. I haven't had it removed because I can't afford the surgery and haven't found a vet that will work with me on the payment. I did have it checked and it hasn't grown so the vet said it isn't something we should worry too much about. Earlier this year a tumor developed around her front bottom tooth, we had that removed, but it is a fast growing tumor and already appears to be growing again. We feed her from a slow feeder dish because she eats so fast.
          Sabel lost about 60% of her vision in the first 3 weeks of being on insulin. The vet only had us going in once a week to get her blood sugar tested and it wasn't regulated quickly enough. I am starting to look for a new vet because I don't feel the one we see now is offering enough information and doesn't seem concerned enough when we come in feel worried and stressed about changes in Sabel.

          I have family members with diabetes and have worked at a dog daycare with other dogs who had diabetes. I do understand the importance of the medication and getting things regulated. At this point I'm am starting to feel that I'm not doing enough for my girl. I don't want her to live in discomfort because of my lack of knowledge.

          I appreciate everyone's advice here.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

            you do have some challenges but i believe all dogs can have adequate regulation where they are comfortable with the blood sugar that is occuring and it doesn't have to be any where close to perfect
            Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
            Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

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            • #7
              Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

              What have her dosages been over the last year and a half? What dose was she started at? Was there a level of regulation the vet and you were ever comfortable with?

              I am glad you have started home testing - it will help you get a better look at how she is really doing day to day. It took me a while to start testing or seeking any advice at all - I fully trusted my vet. I was certain they must know what they were doing but unfortunately I have learned that many vets don't really grasp canine diabetes that well. The minute the dog doesn't go by "the book" they have no idea what to do next. Maggie almost died from a vet that was a great person just way over her head. I decided to learn as much as I could myself and I would never fully trust anyone but me again. That has worked well for my girl, but luckily I now have an excellent vet who is an internal medicine specialist and he has diabetes experience. But he often tells me that he would defer to my judgment. He knows the value of testing and regimen and he realizes he couldn't possibly put in the work with her like I have. None of the vets can - we have our own little research subjects right in front of us every day.

              Don't blame yourself for not doing enough - this disease is one that is mysterious and challenging even sometimes for those of us who have been dealing with it for a while. It takes unexpected twists and turns. You can research the forum and change the course of her disease yourself. You become the expert in her.

              The tumor could very well affect blood sugar. I have found just about everything can affect blood sugar in some way. It is a possibility worth considering. I know it is frustrating when you can't afford to fix something - many vets here offer Care Credit which is a payment plan. You might see if there is a vet in your area that offers it.

              We are all here for you if you have questions, concerns, or frustrations.
              Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

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              • #8
                Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

                Originally posted by amydunn19 View Post
                What have her dosages been over the last year and a half? What dose was she started at? Was there a level of regulation the vet and you were ever comfortable with?


                Our vet wasn't very informative to begin with, so even after a year and a half we are still "regulating". This is why I am trying to educate myself and my family so that we can keep our girl around for a longer time. She started at a dose of 12 then 15, to 18 now 20.
                I was reading about how the blood sugar can jump shortly after eating and getting the insulin dose. We give Sabel her dose at the same time as her food, because she eats so fast and we don't want to forget. Is it better to give the shot after she has eaten?

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                • #9
                  Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

                  Most people give the shot as they are eating or after - it can be a little dangerous to give it before they eat in case they decide not to eat. That can be a disaster.

                  I am concerned about the method of raising several units of insulin at one time. A good starting dose would have been 10 units. Generally, the dose settles for 5-7 days then do a 12 hour curve testing every two hours from before the morning meal until the evening meal. Then, look at the pattern of the numbers and evaluate the dose. I don't like raising over one unit at a time but a bigger increase might be warranted in the very beginning. Any subsequent doses really should only be raised one unit at a time. I am wondering if your vet may have passed the correct dose and you could be seeing some effects of overdosing. It is all about balancing food and insulin and it really should be a slow, deliberate process. If your vet didn't do day long curves for these raises, then I would be worried about whether this dose is correct.

                  Many vets think all dogs have the same reaction to insulin and have their lows at exactly the same time. We have learned every dog is different here. Knowing your dog's curve and when their low point occurs is very important.

                  Can you do a curve sometime soon and post the results? It really is the only way to tell what is going on right now.
                  Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

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                  • #10
                    Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

                    [QUOTE=amydunn19;134859]

                    I am concerned about the method of raising several units of insulin at one time. A good starting dose would have been 10 units. [QUOTE]


                    The dose was increased over an 18 month period in about 4-6 month intervals. We are now at a dose of 20 units. However, we have been giving that does now for 3 weeks with no change in panting and thirst behavior. I will do the 12 hr curve this weekend when I am home and see what the readings are. Thank you for the advice

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                    • #11
                      Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

                      Was he panting and drinking excessively before the increase to 20? I am just wondering if the dose is now too much. But, the curve should give some good info.
                      Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

                        as amy suggested when did the panting begin . does it occur with a pattern

                        panting is a sign of stress . it can be as simple as the dog is overheated or could be uncomfortable with some pain

                        we saw this with jesse she has epilepsy and any of her seizures would lead to excessive panting .

                        now we saw excessive panting with jesse when her blood sugar ran high . we did not see it when she went low she just became lethargic .

                        regulation can be difficult for a dog with additional challenges it took close to a year for our jesse to find multiple ways to keep her blood sugar in a comfortable range for most of the day and we had to figure it out ourselves . there just wasn't another jesse to use as an example

                        she still to this day has times she is lethargic . usually after her meal and shot. now its not unusual to see a dog tired after eating but i feel its a bit more is going on than just the digestive process . it only last maybe a few hours at best and shes ready to go . it seems many dogs will only pant at night and have anxiety . its hard for a vet to discover the problem because they are not there . maybe they find something in the blood work or locate a place of pain on the body .

                        so it takes being a detective seeing if there is a pattern . if that is discovered than you try to eliminate what maybe the problem and see if the panting stops it can be food medication a supplement or maybe the insulin
                        Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
                        Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

                          Originally posted by amydunn19 View Post
                          Was he panting and drinking excessively before the increase to 20? I am just wondering if the dose is now too much. But, the curve should give some good info.
                          She was panting before the increased dose. At that time she was getting 18 units, twice a day with food. I'm doing a 12 hour curve today because I am home all day. I will post the results this evening. I have also been concerned that she may be in pain; possibly caused by the tumor in her abdomen. I have checked her body and limbs for any tender spots and there don't seem to be any.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

                            Sounds like a good plan!
                            Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Diabetic dog panting excessively

                              12 hr readings ---

                              Sable at a bit late last night. We fed her dinner around 11pm. Starting at 9:30 AM I took Sabel's blood sugar reading using our ReliOn monitor.
                              9:30 am - 226 before food and injection
                              Gave injection of 20 units and fed 1 1/2 cups of dry food

                              11:30 am - 351

                              2:40 pm - 369

                              Missed the next reading, had to leave home for a bit

                              7:00 pm - 411
                              Gave injection of 20 units and fed 1 1/2 cups of dry food

                              9:15 pm - 430

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