My Libby

[Pati]

Hi everyone. Libby is a golden retriever, she's 6 yrs old, and normally she weighs around 65-70 lbs. She was diagnosed with diabetes a week ago. She spent the next week in the emergency vet clinic ($$$!). She tested negative for pancreatitis (sp?). Her liver and kidney values are still elevated. I finally got to take her home yesterday ( 9/6/14). She's getting fluids subcutaneously (think I botched that spelling too) once a day. They gave me 2 full bags and she gets half a bag a day, so that's at least 4 days worth. She's getting 1 unit of Levemir twice a day.
I am having a hard time getting her to eat. An internal medicine vet did an ultrasound and everything looked good. Yesterday in bits and pieces with a lot of coaxing she ate 1 and a half Olive Garden breadsticks. I dipped some in their gnocchi soup but then she decided she liked it plain better. Mid-day she actually seemed hungry, and wanted the breadstick, and ate about half then. She's eating some dog treats from Blue Mountain, but again it takes some coaxing. This morning I am trying to get her to eat the Science Diet prescription formula for diabetic dogs ( they sent us home with a can). Much coaxing but she's eaten about 1/5th of the can and several treats. She doesn't seem to be obsessed with drinking water. She still loves chasing her ball, so her energy level is practically normal. I'm afraid of overdoing it so I stop after about a dozen throws. She'd keep playing if I keep throwing!
So basically my major concern is getting her to eat. I've reading other posts here and getting a lot of good info.
Just found out she likes bacon! We're going to try mixing a little dry with a little canned and use a little bacon grease. I'm pretty sure the fat is not good, but we're trying to get her to eat so...
any advice is welcome. I'm a rookie and need to learn everything I can. Thanx.

[Pati]

Re: My Libby

She turned her nose up at the mix I just mentioned.

[jesse girl]

Re: My Libby

hi and welcome

if your not home testing blood sugar it would be something that would be very helpful . the larger breeds are usually quite easy to test and dogs like retrievers usually have a nice disposition

they have nice big inner lips to test and doesn't hurt them . with all the challenges to blood sugar this maybe the single best thing you can do in the management of the disease.

its a bit unusual to start with levemir as the primary insulin . the starting dose is fairly low for a dog your size but since appetite is challenging thats maybe a good idea for now but it can be a double edge sword were the higher sugar may affect appetite

testing blood sugar will also help with exercise and play so you will be able to figure out what you can and cant do . they can still do things that dogs like to do there just maybe some limitations on them and timing .

i would say 99 percent of the time people figure out how to live with the disease and live a relatively normal life . happy and fulfilling

[Pati]

Re: My Libby

They said the chose the levemir because it is slow release. Since she's not eating I think that helps her BG stay steady?
Also when they gave her the first dose of insulin her sugar dropped way too low.

[JoJo's mom]

Re: My Libby

Hi and welcome to you and Libby
Like others have mentioned home testing is the best way to go. The alphatrak 2 is made for animals and is the most accurate however it is also the most expensive. Many others use different human meters and can tell you how to calculate your dog's bg if you decide to use one of them. I have also given my dog subq fluids when he is sick. If you are doing that with Libby you will have no problem taking her BG.
also what was she eating before she was dx?
good luck
Mary

[Pati]

Re: My Libby

She had been eating royal canin but our other dog has skin issues due to an allergy probably so we've been trying a salmon/sweet potato formula. We were in the middle of that when we realized Libby was sick.

[JoJo's mom]

Re: My Libby

Until you find something that she likes to eat maybe you can try giving chicken and rice or adding it or chicken broth to her food. As long as she eats it.

[Pati]

Re: My Libby

Can't get her to eat anything. If she doesn't eat she'll die. Panic is setting in and I have to give her the fluid stuff.

[JoJo's mom]

Re: My Libby

Don't panic!!! I know how overwhelmed you are. Most here have been where you are. Give her the fluids, that will help flush out any ketones she may have.
Did she have insulin today?
Try to hang in there till you can get her to the vet, if she still won't eat.

[amydunn19]

Re: My Libby

I understand desperately trying to find foods she will eat - I went through it with Maggie. Bread and bacon, of course, are not long term solutions but the prescription food is not a requirement so that gives tons of options out there. Find something you can get easily - your goal once finding something acceptable is to become very consistent - same meals, same amount, same time every day.

You might try an independent store that will give up some samples to try or at least buy small bags just in case. I found mixing in a wet food helps.

Do you have paperwork from the pancreatitis test? There is a specific test for pancreatitis and it is the most accurate assessment. What is the name of the test they performed? Also, even if she didn't test positive for pancreatitis, it doesn't mean that she isn't at risk for it. Diabetic dogs can get it more easily. That is why a lower fat food is usually a good option. You don't have to choose the lowest in fat out there. The fact she has no appetite makes me worry about pancreatitis.

Some good appetite enhancers are : baby food, boiled chicken, homemade broth ,hard boiled eggs, parmesan cheese, tuna water, and cottage cheese. Some dogs like rice with chicken, and green beans are good snacks. I have a really picky dog so she won't eat rice or green beans or anything easy

I, too, think home testing will help you get a handle on this. I use the One Touch Ultra mini tester and buy strips on ebay. My meter has always been really close to my vet's meter - so close I don't adjust any numbers. It also gives error messages when the blood sample isn't correct rather than false readings. If money is no object, I would prbly buy the Alphatrack but get a less expensive meter for every day use. My one touch has always been perfect so I never really considered spending more for another meter - this disease can get expensive.

[CraigM]

Re: My Libby

Welcome to you and Libby.
Sounds like you are having a bit of trouble, but things will likely improve once you get her blood glucose a bit under control.

As has been mentioned, home testing will be a great help and save you a LOT of money. If you haven't bought a meter yet today, I'd suggest you visit Walmart and ask for a ReliOn Prime meter http://www.walmart.com/ip/20752266?w...596432&veh=sem , Prime teststrips, lancets (26 gauge) http://www.relion.com/products/relio...-lancets-100ct and a lancing tool. Ask the pharmacist if you have everything you need. This would be the least expensive, and quickest way to start blood testing. After a week / two, you might get another brand of meter, but the ReliOn Prime will get you started.

There are videos on this website, or search YouTube for videos on blood testing diabetic dogs. IT REALLY ISN'T HARD for most folks and pups to learn.

Gotta run, have food on the smoker, but I'll be back a little later.

Take a breath, you and Libby can get through this

Craig

[CraigM]

Re: My Libby

I know you are worried and will get confused by all the comments you are / will receive. Just remember we are all parents to diabetic pups, but our procedures and experiences might differ some. A saying you will read here a lot is: "every pup / situation is different". What works with one pup might not be 100% the same in another pup. Folks have foods, meters, treats, insulin favorites, and will of course recommend what has worked for them.

The general guidelines is to feed the same food, same amount (I use a food scale), 12 hours apart. Some folks have varied from this schedule for some specific reason, but I think everyone starts at 2X day, identical feedings. If the meals vary in type, or quantity, it will be very hard to determine the correct dosage of insulin. Food & insulin affect each other. My Annie is much smaller than Libby, but if I adjust just 0.1 ounce of her normal food it seems to make a difference in her blood glucose (remember: every pup / situation is different ) Same thing if I would give her a doggie treat like a Milkbone midday - it would cause her BG to rise. A breadstick would likely make her BGs sky rocket. I seldom give her ANYTHING between her meals other than possibly a frozen green bean treat (straight from the freezer!) Libby likely still has high BGs on the one unit of Levemir, so anything between meals will just make things worse.

I'll let others talk about Levemir since I've never used it. I saw that that you added to the insulin poll, so you've seen only a few members have used Levemir (some of those who had tried Levemir later moved to the more common insulins). I've read the main advantage to Levemir is that it is much stronger than Novolin-N so a large dog might only need a few units. But that strength could also be a problem because it might be impossible to accurately give a repeatable amount. Again, my Annie is affected by just a variance of 1/4 unit of Novolin-N - that might be 1/10 of a unit of Levemir (impossible to measure in a syringe).

Craig

[jesse girl]

Re: My Libby

my jesse spent 8 days in hospital she was DKA pancretitis and had surgery for a uterus infection all at the same time. she was about the same age as your pup so youth is on her side

it was a struggle for jesse she was very thin for 6 months but she got better

yes i can understand your panic but as long as fluids are being given to eliminate the possibility of dehydration your pup is probably ok

this is not a regulation process but you would like to give enough insulin to keep blood sugar respectable and that could be in the 300s and 400s .

in most situations if there isn't any major underlying challenge appetite should return . sometimes it can be slow to return

was there a reason for such a long stay at the hospital? most diabetics once diagnosed if not showing any other challenges like pancreatitis or ketones usually go home and start insulin on a dose based on weight .

[Pati]

Re: My Libby

First of all thank you for all the replies and help. Most of all support.
We took her in last Sunday morning. They did blood work and said diabetes. She was extremely dehydrated so they kept her overnight. Monday she got a dose of insulin and her sugar dropped way too low. So they kept her another day. She wasn't eating and her liver and kidney numbers were still elevated so they kept her yet another night. They then did the urinalogy and pancreas test. Those results came out good but they were still concerned about the liver and kidney levels so in comes the internal medicine vet. Yet another night... $$$...he does the ultrasound and those results were good. Nothing looked abnormal. At this point our card is almost tapped out. So they/we decided to bring her home and start dealing with it. We're hoping that being back home with her people (she needs her people!) That she might do better as far as eating goes.
She quite the trooper! Gave her the fluid and she just sat there. Almost fell asleep while I was massaging her where the bubble of fluid built up. The thing slipped out and I had to stick her again and she still stayed still.
But she still won't eat anything since this morning.
Going to Walmart ASAP to get the test kit and all that.

[jesse girl]

Re: My Libby

its possible the stay at hospital and being such a people dog she maybe a bit depressed from the whole experience and very understandable . since there appears to be nothing showing up in blood work except some elevated numbers which is understandable .

i think with her being home and with the people that love her things should turn more positive .