Hills W/D

[CavMom]

I just read through the whole thread "Your pet's diet, insulin, meter" and it seems most people have their dogs on the Hills W/D. I've been resisting this, due to the corn ingredients. We've always fed grain-free. The corn/glycemic factor doesn't make sense to me, but I'm past the point of trying to figure it out. I just want to get Beau better regulated. His lows have come down from the mid-to-high 20's to the mid-to-high teens which is good (I'm on my tablet so I'm not sure of the conversion ) but his high numbers are still way too high. There's too much variance between the high and low numbers and I believe his food is spiking his blood sugar way too much.

We switched to Wellness Core Reduced Fat which isn't much different from the old food other than a bit more protein, fiber and lower fat. I don't think it's working any better for him, and maybe a little worse. This is after going from 4 units to 5. I would have expected to see more improvement.

I've asked my vet to order me 12 cans of W/D to try. They only stock the kibble. I planned to give him half a can for each meal with a couple tablespoons of his regular kibble and a few green beans. I'll try it. I guess what I'm looking for is some validation. Did those of you who switched to W/D see a big improvement? Have many people had any luck getting their dogs regulated on grain-free food? Am I doing the right thing?

[Charlie's mom]

Re: Hills W/D

Well, we were rebels too as we only has a few good months on w/d. I didn't mind the corn as much as the cellulose. I spent a Saturday in Petco reading labels and comparing percentages of fat, fiber and protein and then researching Dogfoodadvisor.com for the labels I liked. I also loked to see the composition of the fiber. It's really hard to mark the change, especially since we are failures at testing. The good news is he likes the new food and his fructosamine dropped by nearly 300 points.

My disclaimer is that worked for us may not work for everyone

Laura

[Judi]

Re: Hills W/D

It works. We had good regulation for awhile on it till she wouldn't eat it any more. I questioned it too but it works. Purina om works too. Our ophthalmologist has no problem with the corn and she has tons of diabetic patients. Good luck

[CavMom]

Re: Hills W/D

Well, we were rebels too as we only has a few good months on w/d. I didn't mind the corn as much as the cellulose. I spent a Saturday in Petco reading labels and comparing percentages of fat, fiber and protein and then researching Dogfoodadvisor.com for the labels I liked. I also loked to see the composition of the fiber. It's really hard to mark the change, especially since we are failures at testing. The good news is he likes the new food and his fructosamine dropped by nearly 300 points.

My disclaimer is that worked for us may not work for everyone

Laura

So is he on W/D now or did you switch to something else?

Here's an example of Beau's spikes tonight (I'll convert the numbers)

At 5:00pm, 30 minutes pre-meal/injection he was at 20.3 (365)
At 7:30pm, 2 hours post-meal/injection he was 28.9 (522) - eek!
At 11:00pm, 5.5 hours post-meal, he's at 12.2 (220)

Such a big spike then drop. It was pretty much the same scenario last night. The only thing I can attribute this to is he is spiking too high with his food, and it's taking this long for the insulin to catch up. At least, that's what seems logical to me.

I don't know what else to do. I'm convinced the food is spiking his sugar too high. I wouldn't want his low number too much lower but we need to bring that high number down. We can't put him on any better quality food aside from raw or homemade.

What a roller coaster. ..

[CavMom]

Re: Hills W/D

It works. We had good regulation for awhile on it till she wouldn't eat it any more. I questioned it too but it works. Purina om works too. Our ophthalmologist has no problem with the corn and she has tons of diabetic patients. Good luck

Thank you! And I'm sorry for your loss, Jenny was a cutie, bless her heart.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Hills W/D

Just wanted to clarify at 5pm you injected 5 iu waited 30 minutes then fed him. Not reading this right i guess

are you feeding then injecting right after he eats or waiting to inject?

[CavMom]

Re: Hills W/D

Just wanted to clarify at 5pm you injected 5 iu waited 30 minutes then fed him. Not reading this right i guess

are you feeding then injecting right after he eats or waiting to inject?

No, sorry...I tested him first at 5pm and at 5:30 he had his dinner and injection immediately after eating.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Hills W/D

Then i say your right the wellness core protein is the problem spiking his bg. Do you think completely switching over to wd would be better then mixing the two foods? We started out on wd and caninsulin. It worked for us. I dont want to say this but if Riliey ever goes off his fromm surf and turf, i,m switching back to wd and caninsulin

[CavMom]

Re: Hills W/D

Then i say your right the wellness core protein is the problem spiking his bg. Do you think completely switching over to wd would be better then mixing the two foods? We started out on wd and caninsulin. It worked for us. I dont want to say this but if Riliey ever goes off his fromm surf and turf, i,m switching back to wd and caninsulin

We looked at the Fromm foods on the weekend!

[CavMom]

Re: Hills W/D

See, I just tested him again now (midnight) and he's at 9.7 (175)

So in 4.5 hours he's gone from 522 to 175. An hour ago he was 220 so I don't know if he's finished bottoming out yet or not, and I have to get to sleep. To be safe I just gave him a cookie.

[CavMom]

Re: Hills W/D

Actually, I'm a little afraid to go to bed right now. I don't know that's done dropping

[CraigM]

Re: Hills W/D

Ok, let's talk . I'm not suggesting anyone make any changes, just sort of "thinking" out loud.

Seems many pups, and I would think human diabetics, have what we call food spikes. It really makes sense since we generally are injecting intermediate acting insulin that in humans may have "onset" of 2-4 hours. This gives the food a head start and probably gives the food spike.

I'm thinking the food spike is different in different pups: some have a big spike, other not so much, so no "rule" can be given for all cases. Annie has a pretty big spike with NPH insulin that would last half the day before her numbers would really come down. I tried several foods, but she always had a post meal spike (? Was it a food spike, or spike from her eye drops?).

I think most human diabetics add either a rapid, or short-acting, insulin before their meals to manage their food spikes. Most here inject only intermediate acting insulin either shortly after, or as the pup eats, because of the fear the pup might, for some reason, refuse to eat. some have only a moderate spike and the "parents" just live with the higher numbers for the first couple of hours.

Some of us have added a small amount of Rapid, or Short-acting insulin to the pup's intermediate insulin. I'm probably the only one on the forum that adds a small amount of short-acting (Novolin-R) to the intermediate-acting (Novolin-N) AND inject the combination about 5 minutes BEFORE feeding. Annie is a little piglet and I've never had a problem with her not wanting to eat. Even doing this, her readings go up after her meals, but not like on the intermediate insulin alone.

I understand Vetsulin / Caninsulin has a small amount of some sort of short-acting insulin in the mix, but it might not be enough for some pups??? If your pup always eats, would you be willing to experiment by injecting an hour prior to the meal (give the Intermediate-acting insulin a chance not being behind the food)? I hate to suggest this because this goes against everything we generally recommend.

http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-...in-basics.html For general info that might be interesting. Of course this is for humans.

Craig

[CavMom]

Re: Hills W/D

Ok, let's talk . I'm not suggesting anyone make any changes, just sort of "thinking" out loud.

Seems many pups, and I would think human diabetics, have what we call food spikes. It really makes sense since we generally are injecting intermediate acting insulin that in humans may have "onset" of 2-4 hours. This gives the food a head start and probably gives the food spike.

I'm thinking the food spike is different in different pups: some have a big spike, other not so much, so no "rule" can be given for all cases. Annie has a pretty big spike with NPH insulin that would last half the day before her numbers would really come down. I tried several foods, but she always had a post meal spike (? Was it a food spike, or spike from her eye drops?).

I think most human diabetics add either a rapid, or short-acting, insulin before their meals to manage their food spikes. Most here inject only intermediate acting insulin either shortly after, or as the pup eats, because of the fear the pup might, for some reason, refuse to eat. some have only a moderate spike and the "parents" just live with the higher numbers for the first couple of hours.

Some of us have added a small amount of Rapid, or Short-acting insulin to the pup's intermediate insulin. I'm probably the only one on the forum that adds a small amount of short-acting (Novolin-R) to the intermediate-acting (Novolin-N) AND inject the combination about 5 minutes BEFORE feeding. Annie is a little piglet and I've never had a problem with her not wanting to eat. Even doing this, her readings go up after her meals, but not like on the intermediate insulin alone.

I understand Vetsulin / Caninsulin has a small amount of some sort of short-acting insulin in the mix, but it might not be enough for some pups??? If your pup always eats, would you be willing to experiment by injecting an hour prior to the meal (give the Intermediate-acting insulin a chance not being behind the food)? I hate to suggest this because this goes against everything we generally recommend.

http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-...in-basics.html For general info that might be interesting. Of course this is for humans.

Craig

Thank you for your input. Beau always eats, he's voracious. I wonder if we could experiment by injecting even 30 minutes prior to eating and see what that does, and if he responds push it back to an hour prior?

Right now my concern is him getting too low when I go to sleep. Would it be unreasonable to stay up all night and re-test him every hour? LOL... I'm a mess!

[CraigM]

Re: Hills W/D

Thank you for your input. Beau always eats, he's voracious. I wonder if we could experiment by injecting even 30 minutes prior to eating and see what that does, and if he responds push it back to an hour prior?

Right now my concern is him getting too low when I go to sleep. Would it be unreasonable to stay up all night and re-test him every hour? LOL... I'm a mess!

Before adding the Novolin-R, I experimented injecting the intermediate Novolin-N 30 minutes before the meal. It didn't seem to make any improvement in Annie, but your results might be different

Try not to panic and remember a non-diabetic's BG could easily be 80mg/dL (4.4mmol). Yea, I know it's easy to say "don't panic"

Craig

[CavMom]

Re: Hills W/D

Ok it's back up to 11.8 (212) so I think I can go to bed now.

Sorry for spamming the board tonight!