Ollie

[Ainua]

Hi everyone,

I have a 14 yr old miniature schnauzer, Ollie, who was just diagnosed with diabetes. He is handling the insulin injections well so far, not fighting or squawking at me thankfully. I am honestly just overwhelmed by the wealth of information that has been presented to me over the last several days. We have our first glucose curve at the vet scheduled for next week. I have a few questions as I begin this process, and I am hoping the hive mind of forums can help me out. My vet has told me that I don't need to be checking his blood glucose levels at home at this time, but I am honestly wondering what you all think about doing it at home, I am leaning that way (if only for my own peace of mind and because I feel awkward administering insulin without knowing existing bg levels). I am also really worried about cataracts, I know they're very very common in diabetic dogs, do any of you know anything about steps I can take to try and prevent their development (his vision is fine right now). I am going to talk to my vet about that obviously, but I haven't been able to find much information regarding cataract prevention in diabetic dogs online, I thought maybe some of you would have some experiential stories to share. Ollie is still feeling pretty crumby, but I recognize that it will take awhile before we are able to figure out his correct dosing (he is on 5u of caninsulin q12hr right now).

Thank you all

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Ollie

hello and welcome

thats exactly why i started home testing when my dog was dx for my peace of mind too catch any lows. its easy need help with hometesting were here.

how much does Ollie weigh?
what food is he eating and how much?

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie

Welcome and sorry to hear about Ollie.
Most of us do blood test at home. You don't need the vet's permission to test, although it is nice when they encourage it (some do). There are videos on this website, on YouTube and other places on the Internet that show how easy it can be. Some use the AlphaTrak monitor (sort of expensive, but many vet clinics use it, so the readings would be similar to what the clinic would get). Others use standard human style monitors. The reading from a human meter will likely be lower than true because of the differences between dog and human blood, but it would still give very useful information. Human meters, and test strips, are much less expensive than the AlphaTrak doggie meter. I personally use both the AlphaTrak and a human meter - mostly using the human one, but do an occasional test with the AlphaTrak just to compare the difference.

Tell us more about Ollie. Weight, food being fed, schedule for meals & injections, other medical conditions, really anything you want to share. Typically, with a few exceptions, most test, feed and inject twice a day 12 hours apart. Important to keep things as consistent as possible - I use a food scale to weigh out my Annie's kibble and have deleted nearly all between meal treats. Treats generally are diabetic friendly like 1-2 frozen green beans!

Craig

[Judi]

Re: Ollie

here is a thread where people talk about supplements and eyes. Patty's dog, Ali was diabetic for 4 years and never went blind. My Jenny had some eye issues prior to diabetes and she went blind in 6 months

http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthre...occu#post77047

[Ainua]

Re: Ollie

Hi, thanks for your responses

Ollie was 8.5kg (18.7lbs) at the vet, down a kg from the last vet visit 3 weeks ago. He had the typical symptoms - excessive drinking and urination. Luckily there were no ketones found in his urine. He has a heart murmur, but it is not causing any issues at this point so it is not being treated. Besides that he has always been a very healthy guy, never so much as a sniffle.

We feed him dry food (3/4 cup) every 12 hours with his insulin. I am feeding him the amount my vet has recommended (it honestly seems like a lot to me, but he needs to gain some weight)

- there are a few things that seem weird to me, my vet has told me to stop walking him while we get his insulin adjusted.. but I know once I work that back into his routine we will need to readjust his insulin again (I am confused by that and he is sad because he misses his walks!)

For those of you using human meters - how do you estimate what his sugars actually are based on your results?

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie

Hi, thanks for your responses

Ollie was 8.5kg (18.7lbs) at the vet, down a kg from the last vet visit 3 weeks ago. He had the typical symptoms - excessive drinking and urination. Luckily there were no ketones found in his urine. He has a heart murmur, but it is not causing any issues at this point so it is not being treated. Besides that he has always been a very healthy guy, never so much as a sniffle.

We feed him dry food (3/4 cup) every 12 hours with his insulin. I am feeding him the amount my vet has recommended (it honestly seems like a lot to me, but he needs to gain some weight)

- there are a few things that seem weird to me, my vet has told me to stop walking him while we get his insulin adjusted.. but I know once I work that back into his routine we will need to readjust his insulin again (I am confused by that and he is sad because he misses his walks!)

For those of you using human meters - how do you estimate what his sugars actually are based on your results?

General info about weight loss and trying to gain weight. High blood glucose means the glucose that normally is used by the body is actually (in a diabetic) circulating through the blood stream and not getting used by the body (glucose needs the proper amount of insulin for the body to use it). The liver removes the unused glucose and it is pissed away. Have you noticed that Ollie's urine seems sugary / sticky? So, adding additional food generally won't increase weight until a better blood glucose range is maintained. Basically, much of the nutrition of the food is watering your floors. Not that the vet is wrong, just that if you are feeding more than a normal maintenance amount now, he will likely need more insulin (not in its self a bad thing) and then you would have to remember to reduce the insulin whenever he get small meals.

Walks can, or can not, make a difference. Exercise can cause some dogs to experience a drop in their blood glucose - a few dogs can have a huge drop. This is one of those times where home blood testing can be helpful. You could take a blood reading before a walk and again a few minutes afterwards and determine if exercise really affects ollie at all. Those who have dogs that seem to be affected by exercise would likely cary a small amount of sugar syrup and a bit of food to feed if the pup's blood glucose drops low.

Lunch is on the table, but I'll check back with you later this afternoon

Craig

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie

For those of you using human meters - how do you estimate what his sugars actually are based on your results?

Different folks have different procedures / thoughts. Many ignore the difference and just go by the reading on the meter, and use the probable error as a safety margin. If they see 100mg/dL (US reading), or about 5mmol/L in the rest of the universe, which is frequently considered the lowest reading desired, they are still a little bit above that.

Others might add 20-40mg/dL to the readout. This works in the 100mg/dL range, but the difference is likely larger as the blood glucose increases.

Still others have tried to workout a conversion factor for a human meter. Using a conversion factor has worked for me, but others say it wasn't working well for them. Just for general info, I usually use a Walmart ReliOn Prime human meter and when I compare it to my AlphaTrak doggie meter I divide the Prime's reading by .7 and it compares favorably with the AlphaTrak. Example: if I saw 100mg/dL on the Prime, I divide by .7, and log it as 142.

The thing to keep in mind is that these meters are great, but they are not 100.000% correct. There is a bit of slop, especially at high readings. They are the most accurate down around <100mg/dL (5mmol/L).

Btw, a general conversion from mmol/L (I'm guessing you are in Canada or the UK?) to mg/dL is to multiply by 18. To convert from mg/dL to mmol/L, divide by 18. We deal with both units of measure, so you can post whatever is easier for you.

Craig

[Ainua]

Re: Ollie

Thank you so much!

I cannot tell you how helpful all of you have been, I really appreciate it.
I am in Canada, I will be seeing my vet next week so I will keep you posted on how Ollie is doing.

I bought a glucometer today (I did a reading just now - 33.1 (10 hours since last meal/insulin dose) (YIKES!) but I know this takes time to figure out, I am looking forward to being able to have all of this under control.

Thanks again!!

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie

Thank you so much!

I cannot tell you how helpful all of you have been, I really appreciate it.
I am in Canada, I will be seeing my vet next week so I will keep you posted on how Ollie is doing.

I bought a glucometer today (I did a reading just now - 33.1 (10 hours since last meal/insulin dose) (YIKES!) but I know this takes time to figure out, I am looking forward to being able to have all of this under control.

Thanks again!!

Yea, it is usually a slow procedure but you really can't rush it. High numbers are hard to see, but very low blood glucose can be deadly.

Something else to understand. A single number doesn't tell a lot, only what the blood glucose was at that moment in time. It's not uncommon to see more than a 8.3mmol/L (150mg/dL) range during the day when first starting. So Ollie could have been in the mid 20s a couple of hours ago. Most do an occasional "curve" which is testing before breakfast and then every two hours until the next meal. Doing this, you might see that the blood glucose might rise during the first 2 hours after the injection, then slowly drop for the next 4-6 hours, and then rise during the last 4 hours. This was just an example, and every pup will have their own curve, but it would be important to what / when the lowest number of that day is. We always adjust the insulin dosage based on the lowest reading because low glucose could be deadly.

What meter did you get?

[Ainua]

Re: Ollie

What meter did you get?

Bayer contour next

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie

Bayer contour next

Here in the States, we normally can find much better prices for test strips online (Amazon, EBay, etc.) than at local stores. Hopefully some of the other Canadian members can give you some ideas where to save money.

Craig

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Ollie

okay Blue Jay fan here

shoppers drugmart on thursday has seniors day 20% off. i get my syringes there. no discount on the humulin insulin but its $30.00 here.

bayer contour strips or any human meter strips u can buy on kijiji in your area.

i usually have freestyle lite strips if you ever buy the alphatrack2 animal meter.

[Ainua]

Re: Ollie

okay Blue Jay fan here

shoppers drugmart on thursday has seniors day 20% off. i get my syringes there. no discount on the humulin insulin but its $30.00 here.

Yay! Blue Jays!

Thanks for the information, shoppers syringes are for the human insulin correct? Ollie is on the caninsulin, I think the concentration is different unfortunately . (I really don't want to mess around with calculations atm) I am going to see if I can find the right syringes online.

I really appreciate all of the info I have been given here, already Ollie is acting as though he is feeling LOADS better. It was incredible seeing his behaviour change (in a good way) just throughout the course of a few days.

Will keep you posted,

I live right by the boarder, and I am honestly tempted to head south to see how the strips and meters at Walmart (in the states) compare to the Canadian products. I did not see any relion products when I was there (in Canada), and I saw how cheap they were at Walmart (in the states) - nothing I have purchased (or looked at) has come even close to those prices (even accounting for exchange rate), though I wonder if this is a "you get what you pay for" type of situation -- thoughts? Either way I am set for quite awhile with all of the stuff I bought from the vet and elsewhere.

We are slowly getting there....

thanks all,
cheers!

[Joan]

Re: Ollie

Welcome to you and Ollie
When we lived in Canada, we were also close to the border, could actually see it out the kitchen window. We bought all our supplies in the US. The Caninsulin is the same so bought it in Canada, but the meters, strips etc much much cheaper in the US, More variety too.

All the non prescription stuff can also be bought online from either ebay,amazon.com or amazon.ca

[Ainua]

Re: Ollie

The Caninsulin is the same so bought it in Canada, but the meters, strips etc much much cheaper in the US, More variety too.

Very useful, thank you