Baby Girl Passed on 2/27/16

[peggy0]

Re: Update on Baby

Hi Ida

is baby still getting the chicken and veg with the orijen?

[lab lover]

Re: Update on Baby

Hi Ida

Nice to hear from you. Orijen is a high protein diet and, could very well increase Babys BGs. Forbins BGs went up on turkey, but not chicken. What type of Orijen are you feeding baby? Her curve may not be as flat either Ida. You may get a spike and then some lower readings so its good that you are monitoring Ida. I'd leave it for a week, and then do a curve and we may be able to do some tweaks to help straighten it out. I've been working with Margaret to flatten her curve and she's doing a great job with Lucy. let us know how it goes Ida.

She is eating the Adult Orenjen the one with chicken she still gets the green beans and chopped chicken too twice a day. We increased the dry food to 1 cup since we deleted the canned dog food. She was 226 at feeding 5pm so that was better. I still gave her 16 units.

[lab lover]

Re: Update on Baby

Hi Ida

Nice to hear from you. Orijen is a high protein diet and, could very well increase Babys BGs. Forbins BGs went up on turkey, but not chicken. What type of Orijen are you feeding baby? Her curve may not be as flat either Ida. You may get a spike and then some lower readings so its good that you are monitoring Ida. I'd leave it for a week, and then do a curve and we may be able to do some tweaks to help straighten it out. I've been working with Margaret to flatten her curve and she's doing a great job with Lucy. let us know how it goes Ida.

What is making her spike and then get the low readings that's what I don't understand? I am doing everything the same everyday not missing her feeding time or shots.

[eyelostit]

Re: Update on Baby

Ida,

You could try giving her 1 cup of the gr. beans instead of 1/2 C. I feed Niki 2/3 C of veg with her food, it should make some difference

Dolly

[peggy0]

Re: Update on Baby

It could be the high protein food with the chicken added. Lots of protein made forbin spike. Its really trial and error. If you like the Orijen, you might replace the chicken with some fiber like pumpkin or oatmeal. It may flatten it out some.

[eileen]

Re: Update on Baby

Ida,

I see you posted regarding the Alpha Trak meter over on Jeans thread but I'm going to answer that here on yours so to be sure you don't miss it.

For nearly 4 1/2 years I used a human meter with my Mildred, I was able to watch her trends and do well with the readings I saw.

A little over a year ago I went to using the Alpha Trak, and like you, I do feel most comfortable with it.

For you to be able to buy the AT test strips from your vet for only 52.00 is absolutely wonderful, most others pay at least double that thru their vets. There are online sources for the strips with the cheapest being about 57.00.

The main reason that I am posting in regards to this is that several months ago I was informed by members here that the Alpha Trak meter will accept the Freestyle LITE test strips with readings being very close if not the same to when using the proper AT strips.
The calibration to animal blood is within the meter, not the strip, and with Abbott making both the Alpha Trak and the Freestyle meters nothing significant was done to change the test strip.

For several months now, I, as others, use the Freestyle LITE strips with our Alpha Trak meters. I buy my FSL strips thru an online source for 27.00 for a vial of 50, it is bargainotc.

I do keep a vial of Alpha Trak test strips on hand just in case I question a reading, on the few occasions that I double checked there was no significant difference.

I do not use the lancing device that came with the Alpha Trak, I have really never used a device but instead only the lancet in hand. I find I have much better control and without the intrusive equipment or noise.

I test Mildred in her lip using 28g lancets. Bargainotc sends a free box of lancets with every box of Freestyle Lite test strips that I order.

[lab lover]

Need help Baby's liver is elevated

Hi Everyone,

Haven't been on much since Baby has been doing pretty good -recently I changed her food to Orejen and posted a few remarks regarding the food but, about two wks ago her bg started to go high between 300-400 and I thought it was because we changed her dry food but, she started too looked kinda down so I brought her to the vet and had a complete profile done on her and her liver came back elevated. They put her on Amoxicillin 750mg twice a day and also Metronidazole 500mg twice a day for ten days. Her alts were alkp -203, alt 272, ast 58 when she started her meds.

Yesterday we brought her back for another liver function and her Alts were alkp 158, alt 253, ast 115 so now they have her back on the Metronidazole 500mg for another ten days 2 x a day then another blood test to check enzymes. She also had a ultrasound done on her liver and no tumors showed up but, she had inflamed bile ducts in the liver.

The vet said that if she is still high after the second round of antibotic they want too do a blood test called bile acids tests and if that comes back bad a biopsey.

The vet asked if I was doing anything different or giving her any other meds. The only dose she gets is Hearguard Plus and I was using frontline for years but, since this started this month I haven't put it on her,

I just wondered if anyone on the board has a diabetic dog with liver problems I just hoped this is not cancer of the liver and that I caught it in the early stage so no tumors are showing up because they are very small.

That is why they want to biopsy the liver if the two blood test are high they are thinking the tumors are too small to see in a ultrasound.

If anyone else has any info or a dog with this problem please let me know.

Baby has been a diabetic since Jan 2009, she gets 15 1/2 in am and 16 in pm, she is on Orjen 1 cup twice a day, plus 1/2cup of green beans and 1/2 cup of chicken twice a day. Also, using NPH Novolin from Walmart.

Natalie I still am having eye problems and will be going for surgery on Monday again so if anyone has any info if they could post it tomorrow I would appreciate because both of my eyes will be swollen and black and blue and I might not be able to read the post for a couple of days.

Thanks so much for helping me with Baby I was a nut (LOL) when she became a diabetic but, still get very nervous when she goes low but, I am much better in handling the situation. This with the liver I don't know a lot about.

Hope everyone baby is doing good.

Thanks, Ida

[k9diabetes]

Re: Need help Baby's liver is elevated

Have they talked about putting her on Sam-e and Milk Thistle?

Sam-e

http://www.peteducation.com/article....+2135&aid=3062

Milk Thistle

http://www.peteducation.com/article....+1448&aid=2698

Could be they think this is more of a bile type of problem than a liver problem.

About the Bile Acid Test:
http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/dise...ileacidtst.htm

Older but good review article on liver disease:
http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB...00/PR00128.htm

Sorry to hear you have to have another surgery! It sounds like such a long, drawn out process. But it is good to know that Baby has basically been doing okay.

Let us know what they find when you can.

Natalie

[buddingartist]

Re: Need help Baby's liver is elevated

Ida, I'm hoping you can read this post before you go in for surgery and I hope the eye surgery goes well.

My little man Buddy (20 pounds) also diabetic dx Jan 2010 and many other health problems, has been diagnosed with cholestasis (sludge in the bile ducts). His latest ALKP 845 and ALT 163. He has tested high for over 3 years however, my vet always thought it was nothing to worry about. Then it became a crisis a few months back and we had to send him for an ultrasound and this is how we discovered one of the the problem. (he also has 2 small stones in the bladder).

He was put on Dinosyl (SAMe) 225 mg per day. I'm told that a lot of dogs don't tolerate the milk thistle very well and Buddy has been the exception in everything so far.
I also have to give him 250mg of Vit E daily.
For the actual treatment of the cholestasis, he was prescribed Ursodiol (250mg pill). Unfortunately, the dosage the vet prescribed made him very very sick (diarrhea and very bloody as well as vomitting) and I had to stop and retry gradually at 30+mg twice daily, then 60mg in the am and 30mg at night and he is now on 125mg daily (divided by 2 for each meal). He also takes a maintenance dose of Flagyl of 64mg daily (which I had to beg my vet to prescribe) . We have seen some improvements and I will continue with the dosage until the end of August (which would be 2 months on that treatment, albeit lower dosage than prescribed).

Technically, we should take him for another ultrasound to determine if it is cleared however, we just can't afford to spend another $1,000, in addition to $750 to have the stones removed, considering that we are up to $5,000 in care for him since dx'd, and getting a little tired of making our vet richer by the day. I'll just monitor him when I stop the meds and since our goal now is to make Buddy as comfortable as possible, I will put him back on Ursodiol with the same dosage.

I should also mention that Buddy suffered from acute pancreatitis as well as ketoacidosis not long after his diagnosis with diabetes.

Hope this helps and good luck with your surgery
Louise

[Joan]

Re: Need help Baby's liver is elevated

My diabetic pug has chronic active hepatitis, and trust me the liver values you are reporting are not all that bad. The liver has a tremendous ability to regenerate itself, up to 75%. Though I would take precautions on your Baby, I would not be thinking tumor or anything of the sort.

Natalie recommended the samE (Denosyl as Louise mentioned), and it is propbably the single most important thing you can add. No side effects, and it aids the liver to fight off anything going wrong. The ursodiol is great if there is cholestasis, usually confirmed with ultrasound.

If you can manage smaller frequent meals, it can be of benefit as well. With my diabetic pug with CAH, I eneded up going to 4 meals per day, with 4 insulin shots. She has done very well on this, and her liver values are slowly decreasing...she was as 300 times the norm in the beginning after diagnosis.

the Orijen should be good, red meat is to be avoinded at all costs on a dog with liver disease, as it contributes to the build-up of ammonia. Cod is one of the best protein sources, it has a unique amino acid that helps liver function. Digestive enzymes can sometimes be helpful, I couldn't give my pug the enzymes, as they sped her digestion up so much I couldn't get the insulin matched up. But |I do know of several liver dogs that do well on the enzymes.

I belong to a great liver group
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/canineliver-d/

It is definitely worth looking at, a great group of knowledgable people there.

Hope all goes well with your surgery tomorrow,

Prayers for you both, Joan

[lab lover]

Re: Need help Baby's liver is elevated

Sorry I never got back to you before surgery right now both eyes are so swollen so pls bear with me. Baby has a few more pills than her labs are done again could yu explained what Denosyl is it just took me almost a hr just to sign up for the yahoo liver site I can barely do anything with these eyes yet they cut the muscles in both lids so I cannot read or see good. I want too check out the other links maybe by the end of the wk. So I should not worry too much about her blood test as far as yu all feel they are not that high. her bg' have been running between 170-250 sometimes we will get a 300. I also started her on Zantac because she was constantly eating grass.

I now have a sad note to tell you my sister just called and her Jack russell is around 10 yrs old, overweight, and very spoiled and Gracie is their life. They just found out she is a diabetic so as soon as she can she will be joining this group she knows how much you all have helped me thru Baby's ordeal. Pls welcome her. I hope I can get to those links this wkend but, blurry, burning, eyes right now I can't. should I called the vet and asked about the milkthistle. Talk to yu soon. Ida

[peggy0]

Re: Need help Baby's liver is elevated

Hi Ida

so sorry you are going through this. Denosyl is an antioxidant that protects/heals liver cells. sounds like a good thing to me from what I read. we'll welcome your sister Ida, sorry her Jack Russell has diabetes. we'll be sure to help her out. please take care of yourself and we look forward to your posts when you've recovered.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Need help Baby's liver is elevated

We're looking forward to meeting Gracie!

Natalie

[O'Riley]

Re: Need help Baby's liver is elevated

Ida...my dog, Riley, is also diabetic with liver problems. He recently had an ultrasound which I was able to watch, and his liver didn't look good. Apparently a healthy liver is supposed to have a sharp, well defined outline, which Riley's does not. I switched Riley from Orijen to Jean Dodd's liver cleanse diet and I've noticed a difference in the way his abdomen feels. Instead of hard and unyielding, it is becoming softer by the day. He is a lot more comfortable, too. I'm using Denamarin, 1 tablet a day. He's also on antibiotics for dental problems, and hopefully the tail end of a UTI.

Like you, I have no idea why my dog's liver is bad. The vet thinks Riley's problems are possibly caused by Cushing's. Riley also has huge amounts of protein in his urine, so he's obviously got a lot going on besides diabetes. I'm just taking it one disease at a time.

I'm not sure the Orijen is the best food for Baby right now, but it may depend on which version you're using. The Orijen that Riley was eating before I switched to the Dodd's diet is their "Red Meat" version. Like Joan said, cod is good, and that's the mainstay of the liver cleanse diet. I get 2.5 pound bags of frozen, wild caught cod at Kroger for approx. $11/bag. I'm betting a lab would go through that pretty quickly, though. Joan also mentioned digestive enzymes, and our vet suggested papaya as a natural, gentle digestive enzyme.

Louise...$1000 for an ultrasound??!!! Riley's ultrasound was done by his new general vet in his office for $75. It's a spiffy machine and the images were incredibly clear and gave me all the information I needed to know. I'm sure the more expensive ultrasounds by the board certified radiologists are worth the money, but I really just wanted to know what his organs looked like and whether there was anything bad going on....no precise measurements were taken....no detailed written report was created. But I think that's okay for my purposes right now. I was grateful to have this cost-effective alternative.

[buddingartist]

Re: Need help Baby's liver is elevated

The challenge is that we live in the country and our regular vet,s clinic is not equipped for any of these procedures.

We were referred to another vet about 45 minutes from here and because he is not a regular patient there, they <must< do a <wellness exam< first (there goes $73.00), to make sure the heart etc is OK for the procedure. They also allowed my husband to stay with Buddy and observe the procedure.

Then they insist on a complete bloodwork (using the dipstix) a charge for the collection and another charge for the analysis and on and on and when we took him in for the first ultrasound, it all added up to close to $900.

Because the ultrasound has to be done when the animal is fasting, they gave us a very early appointment and allowed us to take and store our food, insulin in their fridge etc and gave us access to a room afterwards so we could keep to our feeding and injection schedule

I even asked if they could combine the 2 procedures e.g. the ultrasound and the removal of the stones and was told they can't.

I forgot to mention that when I asked our regular vet to get us a quote on the ultrasound, we were told $350 but he never mentioned everything else that would have to be done, in addition to the consultation fee, which is what all added up.

I must say that the new vet sounded very knowledgeable about diabetes issues and we tried to transfer Buddy to his care and we were informed that he couldn't accept Buddy as a patient because he had been <referred< by our first vet. Had I taken Buddy there directly without a referral, he would have been able to take him. Even that I doubt because I had all kinds of problems with my current vet and when I tried to talk to 2 other vets to transfer Buddy's care, the reception was rather frigid.

There is a limited number of vets specialized in small animals as opposed to farm animals in the area and there are very protective of each other's patients. I was told that they would have to the process, blood work, urine sample, exams, etc, etc, all over again.

If Buddy was not diabetic and had not had all these other problems, and if it was only $75 for an ultrasound, I would leave the vet in a minute.