newly diagnosed diabetic dog. Help

[alicias263]

Our 12 year old dog Gizmo who is a mix of Lhasa and Shih-Tzu was diagnosed with diabetes on Monday. He was prescribed two 7 ml shots of Vetsulin a day. I know a little about human diabetes as my brother in law was a severe diabetic. We asked about blood testing and were told it wasn't necessary. I am concerned how we will know if he is responding to the Vetsulin if we don't test. We also had a question about using human insulin verses the Vetsulin as human insulin is so much cheaper. We were told that in our vets experience that dogs don't respond well to human insulin and it is harder for them to regulate but I am seeing that a lot of dogs owner are using other insulin. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated

[CraigM]

Re: newly diagnosed diabetic dog. Help

Our 12 year old dog Gizmo who is a mix of Lhasa and Shih-Tzu was diagnosed with diabetes on Monday. He was prescribed two 7 ml shots of Vetsulin a day. I know a little about human diabetes as my brother in law was a severe diabetic. We asked about blood testing and were told it wasn't necessary. I am concerned how we will know if he is responding to the Vetsulin if we don't test. We also had a question about using human insulin verses the Vetsulin as human insulin is so much cheaper. We were told that in our vets experience that dogs don't respond well to human insulin and it is harder for them to regulate but I am seeing that a lot of dogs owner are using other insulin. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated

Welcome to the forum.

I guess some vets actually believe what you wrote. Others see $$$ in having you come into the clinic every week or two for them to do a blood test https://www.countrysidepet.com/colle...st-test-strips Vetsulin MAY be more like dogs own insulin, but there's that $$$ of selling insulin instead of suggesting Novolin-N from Walmart. $25 for 1000 units of Novolin-N compared to $60?? for 400 units of Vetsulin.

Gotta run, lunch is on the table.

How much does your pup weigh?

Craig

[k9diabetes]

Re: newly diagnosed diabetic dog. Help

Sorry to hear that your vet's approach to canine diabetes is rather outdated. Nearly everyone here tests their dog's blood sugar at home - it's the single greatest tool you have for managing your dog's diabetes. And blood glucose curves done at home take advantage of them being in their usual routine and environment.

You can see numerous videos of people testing their dog's blood sugar at http://www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html

How much does your dog weigh?

If he's less than 20 pounds, 7 units per injection would be a bit large for a starting dose.

As far as Vetsulin versus Humulin/Novolin N human insulin, it is much more affordable to use N, which you can buy at Walmart (Relion N) for $25 for a vial containing 1,000 units.

And it works very well for most dogs. For a while, Vetsulin was off the market and nearly every dog here was using N.

Unfortunately, some vets either are not familiar with using N or buy into the sales pitch from the Vetsulin reps so are discouraged from using it. When in fact it's a great insulin for many dogs.

It sounds like you may need a vet whose diabetes experience is more up to date... if there are other vets in your area, you might explore your options.

You can learn more about insulin, syringes, etc. at http://www.k9diabetes.com/insulinfood.html and http://www.k9diabetes.com/monitoring.html.

Natalie

[CraigM]

Re: newly diagnosed diabetic dog. Help

Before I forget, I want to mention syringes. Vetsulin is a U-40 insulin (40 units of insulin per ml) and requires U-40 syringes for proper dosing. Novolin-N is a U-100 insulin (100 units per ml) and requires U-100 syringes. If you think about switching to Novolin-N, BE SURE to change to U-100 syringes. This is actually a good thing because U-100 syringes can be bought at any pharmacy, while U-40 syringes would have to be purchased from your vet ($$), or from an online vet supply source. Walmart U-100 syringes are 100 for about $12.

Craig

[CraigM]

Re: newly diagnosed diabetic dog. Help

OK, one more thing.

Did the vet try to sell you $$$ prescription dog food?

Yes, the prescription foods MAY be easier for some dogs to regulate. Basically (I think) it's the high fiber that makes the prescription foods useful for diabetic dogs. I add Benefiber to my pup's meals. I had three problems with the prescription foods:
Expensive
Portion size is usually much greater than more normal foods
Some dogs don't seem to like the taste

I think most on the forum look for foods that are higher than average in fiber, and lower than average in fat. Important to feed something they will eat, and is repeatable. Some weigh the food on a kitchen food scale to be as repeatable as possible.

Craig

ps. keep in mind we are dog parents just like you, and we all have our own thoughts

[alicias263]

Re: newly diagnosed diabetic dog. Help

I thank you all so much for your input. Gizmo weighs 30 pds. He went for whole day glucose curve today and she upped his dosage of Vetsulin from 7 to 9 units. We again brought up testing at home and possibly changing to human insulin and were told they have had poor results with treating dogs with human insulin and trying to test at home would likely just make Gizmo afraid of us after repeatedly sticking him. I'm so confused. we really cant afford the high cost but love our Giz so much I want to do what is best for him. we are looking at changing vets.

[KristinMarie717]

Re: newly diagnosed diabetic dog. Help

Jackson was diagnosed about 4 weeks ago and in my experience... He just thinks he is getting extra attention lol

My vet also didn't seem to think home testing was important but I cannot imagine not doing it. I think I would be a nervous wreck all the time (worse than I already am ) it's the absolute best way to know exactly how your pup is responding to the insulin.

You are in the best place you can be here! Do all the reading you can and take it all in and don't be afraid to stand up to your vet if you feel like something isn't right. If I didn't do that I don't think Jackson would still be here!

Good luck and keep us posted on Gizmos progress!

[amydunn19]

Re: newly diagnosed diabetic dog. Help

That is a very big increase considering that your dog was started a unit higher than the average starting dose(1/5 unit per pound). The starting dose should have been 6 units.

Your vet is wrong about testing and your dog being afraid of you. Also wrong about using a human meter. I used the One Touch Ultra for Maggie - she lived almost 9 years with diabetes. I never bought an animal meter. I bought strips on eBay and got them close to expiration. My vet even thought my meter was very accurate and bought one for his clinic to have an extra. The Wal mart brand meter(Relion) is not as accurate but for the purposes of keeping your dog in a safe range, it would work for your purposes. All meters - human or animal - use algorithms so accuracy is only so good. You are looking for ranges and trends to make decisions and of course, telling you when your dog is low. The big danger with dogs is lows - high numbers don't have the repercussions like organ damage that humans have.

You don't need permission to test - remember you are the caretaker and decision maker. I had switched vets after the first one almost killed her and I told the 2nd one that testing was not negotiable. A good vet works with you as a team and doesn't use fear to dictate what you do.

It is important to reward your dog when testing with a small treat. Many use frozen green beans, string cheese, pieces of boiled chicken.