Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 1
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous template Next
  • #1

    Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

    Miss Bella was diagnosed diabetic in Dec. of 2014. Her vet at the time put her on 10 units of Vetsulin, which was later increased to 11 units. Everytime we have to order Vetsulin, we have to do the song and dance of getting a prescription for our online pharmacy (Allivet). That's a nuisance, but what is worse is that it just costs too much - the cold shipping from FL (to TN) is $34.50! So now we want to transition Bella over to Novolin N, which as you all know is cheaper.

    Here's my issue - my vet wants to do another (expensive) glucose curve on her, and is a bit freaky about us wanting to make this change. (Less money into his pocket, I don't know.) I have a friend who works for another vet, so I called him (his prices for shots are SO much better), BUT he doesn't even do glucose curves, said I can just use the same dose, didn't even mention the need to switch syringes (which I learned about here!), and basically didn't think it all a big deal.

    In your vast experience, forum folk, is the dosage (accounting for using the correct syringes: U40 for Vetsulin, U100 for Novolin N) the same? I can give her 11 units with the U100 syringe of the Novolin N?

    Now, I am aware that it's a different acting insulin. That said, I am going to test her glucose with my own meter (I'm diabetic, too), and with that meter, take her to get tested at the new vet so I can compare the readings. Monday we'll start her on the Novolin N, though I'm wary about giving her 11 units of that - going to try 7 - BUT what worries me the most is that this old country vet with 40 years experience blows off my concerns, while the expensive vet is all thinking I'm nuts for not bringing her in for a curve.

    What do you think re the doses? I'd say Bella's been fine on the Vetsulin. She's a very low key dog anyway, not very energetic, never has been. Who do I believe? What should I start her at? Thanks for any advice!
    Bella is a Cardigan Welsh Corgi/beagle mix, 10 years old, diabetic since 12/14. Now on 9 units of Novolin N after being on Vetsulin. We feed her grain-free Merrick with lean, cooked meat and PetVi supplement.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

    Welcome.

    Many of us have switched from Vetsulin to Novolin-N with no problems. You're right, you do need to to switch to U100 syringes, but that's a good thing. U100 syringes come with a short needle size, and thinner needles, that many pups prefer. If your pup is already very well regulated on Vetsulin, you might reduce the Novolin-N dosage just a tiny bit for safety, but if the pup generally is still having high blood glucose you can probably use the same dosage on Novolin-N in the U100 syringe.

    You are talking about the Novolin-N from Walmart for $25/vial, right?

    Are you home blood testing? Kinda hard to make any changes without knowing your pups blood glucose.

    When I switched, my Annie's dosage remained the same.

    Craig
    Last edited by CraigM; 09-22-2016, 10:11 PM.
    Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.

    Comment

    • #3
      It is vital to have glucose curves - this will keep your dog safe. The good news is that you can do them yourself! A little investment in supplies and some knowledge about blood sugar and balance of food and insulin and you can do this. Once I tested at home, Maggie never had another curve at the vet. The only time she went in were pancreatitis attacks or infections.

      A vet who doesn't believe in curves scares me. But, one who doesn't work with you does too. We can help you get started testing.
      Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

        That can be a difficult decision if you saw very good regulation. i might not switch because getting there can be such a process . now if regulation is just ok or just so so then the switch probably wont hurt and worth a shot

        I would probably drop the dose anyway especially if you haven't done many curves Its a bit unusual to start at 10 units and end at 11 very fast process and you have limited info on where blood sugar is

        a normal starting dose is .2 multiplied by weight but sometimes dogs like my jese end up on a dose lower than a normal stating dose

        I have used a human meter for jesses whole diabetic life and has done the job . glad you will be testing sugar at home . Always best to compare with a lab analyzer instead of another handheld but the vet may not have that option

        What is your pups weight ?
        Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
        Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

          is there a 3rd vet anywhere in the area?
          Jenny: 6/6/2000 - 11/10/2014 She lived with diabetes and cushings for 3 1/2 years. She was one of a kind and we miss her.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

            The Vetsulin is much more expensive than many realize. When you buy a 10 ml vial of Vetsulin, you receive 400 Units of insulin. When purchasing a 10 ml vial of Novolin, you receive 1,000 units of insulin There is much higher concentration of insulin in the Novolin, 100U/ml vs 40U/ml. Thus the reason for the different syringes.

            There is a huge price difference if one looks at the cost per unit of insulin you receive with each. This is in addition to the significant shelf "sticker price" of each.

            Ditto on Any's comment, ... a vet who doesn't see the value of a curve is scary.
            Last edited by farrwf; 09-23-2016, 07:26 AM.
            Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dad’s loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

              Because these two insulins can act somewhat differently, I usually recommend a small reduction in the dose when you make the switch. Test and see how it goes and raise the dose back up if need be.

              Vetsulin was off the market for two years and a lot of dogs were switched at that time. Most wound up on about the same amount of insulin - I don't recall any huge differences. It certainly can vary a unit or two, and that's the reduction I'd recommend, especially if you aren't very familiar with testing and how your dog has responded to the original type of insulin throughout the day.

              Natalie

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

                Bella is 35 lbs. She's been on 12 units of Vetsulin. Regarding home testing, I tried it, but was unsuccessful in getting any blood out - tried the upper lip. I managed to do it one day, but not the next, and there was a dark spot like a hematoma where I'd done it before, so I don't think that's going to work. Tomorrow we have to start her on the Novolin N. I'm going to start her on 8 units (yes, we got some U-100 syringes for that). I hope that's enough...
                Bella is a Cardigan Welsh Corgi/beagle mix, 10 years old, diabetic since 12/14. Now on 9 units of Novolin N after being on Vetsulin. We feed her grain-free Merrick with lean, cooked meat and PetVi supplement.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

                  I"m going to try her at a lower dose. I am a little worried that I won't be able to tell how she is - normally Bella's fairly inactive anyway, always has been very low key.
                  Bella is a Cardigan Welsh Corgi/beagle mix, 10 years old, diabetic since 12/14. Now on 9 units of Novolin N after being on Vetsulin. We feed her grain-free Merrick with lean, cooked meat and PetVi supplement.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

                    Yes, the Novolin N from Walmart. The suggested dosage (.2 X her weight) comes out to 7 units, but she's been getting 12 of the Vetsulin. I was thinking 8 units, but maybe that's not enough if she's been getting more?
                    Bella is a Cardigan Welsh Corgi/beagle mix, 10 years old, diabetic since 12/14. Now on 9 units of Novolin N after being on Vetsulin. We feed her grain-free Merrick with lean, cooked meat and PetVi supplement.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

                      UPDATE: We started Bella on 9 units of Novolin N this morning after figuring her dosage according to the suggestions here. And I have to say she's doing great! No adverse symptoms and in fact, she seems to have more energy than usual!

                      When we were at the vet last Friday, he took her blood sugar reading and I did a reading with the meter we'll be using with her so I could see what conversion I might have to use. He sent her blood work away for other tests, so I don't know yet what reading he got (he didn't use a test strip but just a syringe to take blood). After I hear back from him, I'll try home testing.

                      But it's a relief that she seems to be doing so well. She took interest in a rawhide chew for the first time in many months. We took her for a walk in the park right after eating and she was pretty perky. Here's hoping this pattern continues!
                      Bella is a Cardigan Welsh Corgi/beagle mix, 10 years old, diabetic since 12/14. Now on 9 units of Novolin N after being on Vetsulin. We feed her grain-free Merrick with lean, cooked meat and PetVi supplement.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Switching Insulin - Two Vets Who Don't Agree!

                        Glad she got a positive response to n and to begin the process of regulation

                        hope it goes well
                        Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
                        Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

                        Comment

                        Previous template Next
                        Working...
                        X