Up date on Sugar

[Raysaint]

Re: New to all this

If you plan to stick to basics, consistent food and dose, then each week you do your curve and increase as needed. You should see slight improvements if you don't throw new things into the mix.
And improvements may backtrack a few days,then get back on track, it's always surprising. But don't react, ride it out.
300 and 400 is normal at this stage, let the improvements happen at the right pace according to the dog's body with the doses over the next weeks.

[Sugar]

Re: New to all this

Are you using NPH (N) or Vetsulin insulin?

We are using...Vetsulin

[amydunn19]

Re: New to all this

K-9, Mike, Amy, Raysaint, Jesse girl and all...May I pick your brain due to your abundance of expert knowledge? Is there a point at which you decide to beak protocol and increase the insulin during a trial as with Suzie? We are following your (and Mike's) instructions for the most part but wonder how long is it okay in general and/or for kidneys to overwork to pump out glucose if BG remains at a constant high.,i.e. over 3-400 with no low nadirs. I see consistency and no significant ups/downs today but what if the BG is always high? I suspect that you anticipate that the BG will slowly decline over the next few days???

Dogs can stand higher glucose for a longer period of time. Generally, the main side effect is cataracts and loss of vision. The organ damage is not typically a danger to dogs who have a prolonged period of high sugar. You also want to check for ketones but beyond that, the regulation process depends on a patient approach. Getting in a hurry will not bring the desired results.

[Sugar]

Re: New to all this

Dogs can stand higher glucose for a longer period of time. Generally, the main side effect is cataracts and loss of vision. The organ damage is not typically a danger to dogs who have a prolonged period of high sugar. You also want to check for ketones but beyond that, the regulation process depends on a patient approach. Getting in a hurry will not bring the desired results.

My vet us keeping her to do the insulin curve...

[Sugar]

Regarding my dog sugar

I am just heart broken and beside myself...~As I stated earlier they were having trouble regulation her on insulin..Today I took her to have a sugar curve test and the vet called and said it may be possible she has Cushing's so he did a blood test..it will be back Thursday..I had to wait all day where her vet is..and they called about 3 hours letter with the news..I have cried all day...Keep in mind I am a 63 years old but she has been part of our family for 10 years...so now he is to call with the new Thursday....I feel positive that's what it is...I just can't think of putting her down but I love her to much to have her suffer...The vet said he must treat Cushing's before he can do her diabetes..Bad news just keeps coming..and to top it off its my Birthday...I am worried that if she don't eat that will become more of a problem because of her high sugar...so what I have read most dogs that get cushions don't make it long...I know nothing about cushions so I will try and read all I can..I am just so upset because I don't know what to expect between now and Thursday to tell us what to do....I am glad for this site..At least I feel like I am not alone..

[jesse girl]

Re: Regarding my dog sugar

you might want to join our sister site K9 cushings before you make a decision they are very knowledgeable over there

[CraigM]

Re: Regarding my dog sugar

I’m no expert, but I’ve read there are MANY false diagnoses of Cushings. Do you see several physical appearances of Cushings like loss of hair, crudy skin, pot-belly, hunger? Here is an article that lists symptoms:
https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions...drenocorticism

I’ve read that it is VERY difficult to diagnose Cushings if the dog has uncontrolled diabetes, basically the OPPOSITE of what you say the vet told you. You seem to have multiple threads, so I’ll ask you the dogs weight and the current insulin dosage.

As Jesse Girl suggests, check into k9cushings(dot)com. They have a lot of experience and will lead you in the correct direction.

Don’t drive yourself crazy (yea, easier said than done). This might be nothing major to worry about.

Craig

[Sugar]

Re: Regarding my dog sugar

I’m no expert, but I’ve read there are MANY false diagnoses of Cushings. Do you see several physical appearances of Cushings like loss of hair, crudy skin, pot-belly, hunger? Here is an article that lists symptoms:
https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions...drenocorticism

I’ve read that it is VERY difficult to diagnose Cushings if the dog has uncontrolled diabetes, basically the OPPOSITE of what you say the vet told you. You seem to have multiple threads, so I’ll ask you the dogs weight and the current insulin dosage.

As Jesse Girl suggests, check into k9cushings(dot)com. They have a lot of experience and will lead you in the correct direction.

Don’t drive yourself crazy (yea, easier said than done). This might be nothing major to worry about.

Craig

They did a blood test for cushions ..I am confused..does the test come back positive when it is really negative?...thanks for the help

[CraigM]

Re: Regarding my dog sugar

They did a blood test for cushions ..I am confused..does the test come back positive when it is really negative?...thanks for the help

I’m not sure what the tests show: false positive, or inconclusive. That’s why you might want to check with k9cushings(dot)com. Hopefully one of our members who have a pup with Cushings will check-in.

[Judi]

Re: Regarding my dog sugar

Hi: my dog Jenny had both cushings and diabetes. Like some of the others have said, we've had a lot of dogs around here who were incorrectly diagnosed with cushings. It isn't a conclusive test.

I think the blood test can rule OUT cushings, but the test they are waiting for measures Sugar's cortisol level. Dogs with cushings have very high cortisol levels. It can cause a bloated stomach, crappy hair, insatiable thirst and a lot of hunger. It can also make them resistant to the insulin.

However, a lot of diabetes symptoms are the same. My vet told me that the cushings test is only 80% accurate.

The test for cushings is expensive and after you start the medication for the cushings you have to re-do the test so it can get spendy.

My Jenny lived for 3 1/2 years with both. It is treatable. But it is also overwhelming and can be tricky because as the cortisol levels go up and down, so do the insulin needs.

I don't 100% agree with your vet. You need to keep up with the insulin even if sugar has cushings or the diabetes could go out of control. We did both at the same time with my dog and as her cortisol went down, her insulin needs decreased.

Let us know how the vet visit goes today. It isn't easy but it is possible.

hang in there. And join our cushings forum too.

Judi

[Sugar]

Re: Regarding my dog sugar

Hi: my dog Jenny had both cushings and diabetes. Like some of the others have said, we've had a lot of dogs around here who were incorrectly diagnosed with cushings. It isn't a conclusive test.

I think the blood test can rule OUT cushings, but the test they are waiting for measures Sugar's cortisol level. Dogs with cushings have very high cortisol levels. It can cause a bloated stomach, crappy hair, insatiable thirst and a lot of hunger. It can also make them resistant to the insulin.

However, a lot of diabetes symptoms are the same. My vet told me that the cushings test is only 80% accurate.

The test for cushings is expensive and after you start the medication for the cushings you have to re-do the test so it can get spendy.

My Jenny lived for 3 1/2 years with both. It is treatable. But it is also overwhelming and can be tricky because as the cortisol levels go up and down, so do the insulin needs.

I don't 100% agree with your vet. You need to keep up with the insulin even if sugar has cushings or the diabetes could go out of control. We did both at the same time with my dog and as her cortisol went down, her insulin needs decreased.

Let us know how the vet visit goes today. It isn't easy but it is possible.

hang in there. And join our cushings forum too.

Judi

Than you for the response..My vet did the cushions test and it was negative...we did keep up on her insulin..I am going over to day to have sugar checked and do a urine culture test done...I think he is going to do a thyroid test...hopefully we with. Get her regulated soon..

[k9diabetes]

Re: Regarding my dog sugar

Unfortunately, I think your veterinarian is part of the problem here.

The best way to approach potential Cushing's and known diabetes is to work on the diabetes first. Because how the diabetes responds can tell you whether or not she had Cushing's disease.

It is FAR too early in her diagnosis of diabetes to be jumping to a Cushing's assumption - as proven by the results of the test apparently.

That tells me that your vet doesn't know enough about these things to make proper decisions.

I know that's scary and frustrating... it's also quite common, unfortunately.

Have you given more thought to testing her blood sugar at home?

I can send you a meter to use.

I will also follow with some links about the challenges of diagnosing Cushing's in a diabetic dog. Please take a look at those.

And if you'd like to talk further you can always email me at k9diabetes@gmail.com. There's a chance I'm familiar with the vet you're using as I've been working with people and their dogs' diabetes for a long time - almost 14 years.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7134

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2314

We at the forum and I personally can help you sort all of this out. We have been through exactly the same thing with out dogs.

It's possible that she's just naturally somewhat resistant to insulin right now from having been a poorly controlled diabetic and that it will take a while to break that resistance. It's something unrelated to any other disease.

Natalie

[Sugar]

Up date on Sugar

Wanted to give everyone an update on Sugar..so after finding out over a month ago she had sugar I think the vet finally found out why the insulin didn't work at first...when the vet couldn't get her regulated he started testing for the problem as to why...He did a cushions test came back negative, he spayed her thought maybe hormones might be it, still blood sugar high...tested thyroid, than he did a culture test on urine..found out she had a very bad UTI...on meds...blood sugar running 140 now...she seems to be doing well...goes back this Friday to recheck....I do have one question...if I decided to test her at home how do I get the insulin? Not sure the vet would give me a prescription....and test strips..she is on vetsilin...and that is high plus certain food from them...we have spent over 1,000 dollars on getting this under control....thanks for any help.....should we order a dog meter to test at home....Happy New Year to everyone..

[bichons9]

Re: Up date on Sugar

Wanted to give everyone an update on Sugar..so after finding out over a month ago she had sugar I think the vet finally found out why the insulin didn't work at first...when the vet couldn't get her regulated he started testing for the problem as to why...He did a cushions test came back negative, he spayed her thought maybe hormones might be it, still blood sugar high...tested thyroid, than he did a culture test on urine..found out she had a very bad UTI...on meds...blood sugar running 140 now...she seems to be doing well...goes back this Friday to recheck....I do have one question...if I decided to test her at home how do I get the insulin? Not sure the vet would give me a prescription....and test strips..she is on vetsilin...and that is high plus certain food from them...we have spent over 1,000 dollars on getting this under control....thanks for any help.....should we order a dog meter to test at home....Happy New Year to everyone..

YAy!!...so glad to hear you have the insulin issue cleared up..For my own issues with insulin problems..May I ask?? Were there any s+s of a UTI? Was the WBC elevated? OR was the culture the only means that got it diagnosed? Great job!!!

[Judi]

Re: Up date on Sugar

I would just have a serious talk with your vet about the cost etc. My vet didn't want to rely on me testing either. He thought his environment was more controlled, etc. etc.

Once I promised not to just willy nilly adjust her insulin based on ONE reading, we worked something out. I'd test her at home and do curves at home. I'd email him the results, and he'd call me to discuss our next step. He would occasionally bill me for a phone consult which was a lot cheaper and she wasn't stressed going to the vet all of the time.

We used a one touch ultra and it worked fine for us.

So glad you figured it out! Judi