Diet Change Advice

[StarvedArtist]

Hi everyone!

My Pomeranian mix, Chinook, was diagnosed with diabetes a few months ago. I have been searching the web and just soaking in any information I can find about dog diabetes and what I should be doing. I’m able to email my vet and she’s been super helpful with all my questions I’ve thrown at her and answering me on stuff but I want some advice from some long time diabetic dogs.

Here is my doggies info!
Name: Chinook
Age: 11 in September
Insulin: Vetsolin 6-7 units morning and night. This was being a consistent 6 units but after adding the wet food I’m having to slowly adjust to 7 more feedings.
Diet: Purina UR(urinary stone food) with some wet food mixed in of same brand.
BG meter: Alphatrak 2 and a freestyle libre(can be super incaccurate) we test him morning and night and when needed with the alphatrak. He does great with that and he gets a tiny 2kcal treat with it.
Backstory: He has always had a lot of health issues and he has been overweight for a lot of his life. The vet ended up finding out that his thyroid has issues so I think that’s what got him overweight. He has had a lot of issues with his legs and having arthritis in all of them and just a lot of walking issues so I couldn’t even get the weight off of him to help him. Finally with diabetes, he has went from 22lbs down to 18lbs and he is SOOOOO much better. I think he’s lost so much weight because we’ve had a hard time getting it under control but and that’s why I’m wanting to change his diet because I want his numbers better and I don’t want him to lose anymore weight. He was also diagnosed with Cushings disease so he is now on meds for that too. He moves around a lot better and he is a way more happier dog. The meds he currently is on are: Gabapentin, Tramadol, Hydrocodone, Thyro tabs, Benazepril, Claritin, trilostane, Purina probiotic tablet, and glucosamine brownie thing.

I’m looking to change his diet to more diabetic friendly. He has been on Purina UR food because he has had multiple bouts of bladder stones over the past 6-8 years and so my vet wanted to just keep him on that for now(though i’m wanting to say that he may not even have the bladder stones that the urinary foods technically help with). He also had issues in the past with being extremely picky on what he eats and he was scarfing that down so we didn’t want to switch that since eating with diabetes and insulin is very important lol He got a stomach bug a little over a week ago and my vet thinks it changed his taste buds because now he won’t eat the dry food unless I mix wet in with it. Which is making his numbers go even more out of control and higher so I want to go ahead and change him while he isn’t eating the food good.

I see quite a few people on here that give homemade food and that interests me some but how do y’all figure out how much your dogs needs of each thing and how many vitamins they need? Do y’all think I should just switch him to a different dry food for now or totally change it up with some homemade? My sister has few raw food to her diabetic dog who passed years ago and he was doing amazing on that but I don’t know whether I want to start having to handle all that and being super careful with all the bacteria that comes with raw feeding.

I have to give him a lot of pills morning and night so I’ve been giving them with Milkbone pill pockets but I just made some homemade pill pockets yesterday that are 12kcal and he loves them so I’m switching to that. And the only other treat he gets is the 2kcal ones that I give for insulin readings.

Thank you guys for any info and advice y’all give! I will continue stalking the board for information lol

[StarvedArtist]

Re: Diet Change Advice

Also to note, his numbers being ‘controlled’ are still in the 300-450 range. He is hard to get under control and my vet just said for now that as long as it’s no higher than 500 to 600 then she is good with that. Which right now he is having some spikes of 500 and once in a blue moon 600. But I really want to get it down to a better range. I would be happy right now to get it in the 200-300 range.

[MomtoMax]

Re: Diet Change Advice

Hello and welcome from a relative newcomer as well. I’ve dealt with many of the health issues with previous dogs that your pup has, but this is my first dog with diabetes and it’s challenging!
Bladder stones are something I’ve not dealt with, so I hope someone with experience can help with that! I’d be cautious of changing a urinary health diet as from my understanding, without it, stones will begin to form again.
It took me a good year plus to figure out a good diet for my Corgi! Food is the most challenging part of diabetes, or at least has been for us WRT getting good numbers… I wanted to home cook for him, but didn’t trust myself to get it right. I’m pretty anal about a diet being balanced. So I compromised and started feeding The Honest Kitchen base food mix and adding my own protein, which varies from chicken, pork and beef. Of course with all the shortages around, this food has been difficult to obtain at times, so I’ve also used the mixes with the protein (white fish) in them and in both cases, his numbers have remained pretty stable. That said, he’s just one diabetic dog and they’re all different as you’ll find here.
Donna

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diet Change Advice

hi, welcome to you and your Chinook

i would make small changes in his diet to bring down his blood sugar. under 250 for most of the day is considered regulation

maybe take out the treats just milkbone as it raises their sugar and put in something like cooked turkey balls with his insulin and meds or green beans with salmon oil. theres no sugar content. check Chinooks bg in a week. i.ve seen others over 12 yrs switch out the milkbone.

[jesse girl]

Re: Diet Change Advice

what kind of numbers are you seeing with blood sugar ?

As you said first and foremost your dog has to eat day in day out. You hope they enjoy it .

Decent blood sugar control from 100 to 250 is stable sugar for dogs . You would like to avoid big swings in sugar as that's not stable

with other challenges and medication you may have to reduce expectations on decent control but not impossible if you want to put in the work .

As far as homemade diet my jesse was on for her entire 11 year diabetic life . started with raw and that did not work for her delicate digestive system . Its hard to digest all that protean and fat and in my opinion you want something easy to digest for a diabetic dog . I went with a balanced diet that me and Jesse developed over 6 months to a year till we settled on for the rest of her life . did it have everything she needed ? I dont know but she lived longer than most and passed from dog dementia and physically she may have lived many years longer past 16.5 . So I am one not to buy into a homemade diet cant be a good approach with fresh high quality food . Now opinions on that are far and wide

If you have a diet that works with blood sugar and your dog eats it day in day out it maybe good to keep but if your dog is struggling with it as far as consuming than waiting for things to get better maybe like putting a square peg in a round hole . Its up to you how long you want to stay with something

there is no prize for giving the least amount of insulin so if your dog needs more on a certain food does not matter as long as you have adequate control

[StarvedArtist]

Re: Diet Change Advice

hi, welcome to you and your Chinook

i would make small changes in his diet to bring down his blood sugar. under 250 for most of the day is considered regulation

maybe take out the treats just milkbone as it raises their sugar and put in something like cooked turkey balls with his insulin and meds or green beans with salmon oil. theres no sugar content. check Chinooks bg in a week. i.ve seen others over 12 yrs switch out the milkbone.

I found a recipe of 2 tbsp quick oats, 1 tbsp water and 1tbsp peanut butter(I got a natural 1 ingredient peanut butter). They work great as pill pockets and the recipe says it’s only 12kcals! All my dogs love it and they are quick to make sure I’m gonna switch them all to that.

[StarvedArtist]

Re: Diet Change Advice

Hello and welcome from a relative newcomer as well. I’ve dealt with many of the health issues with previous dogs that your pup has, but this is my first dog with diabetes and it’s challenging!
Bladder stones are something I’ve not dealt with, so I hope someone with experience can help with that! I’d be cautious of changing a urinary health diet as from my understanding, without it, stones will begin to form again.
It took me a good year plus to figure out a good diet for my Corgi! Food is the most challenging part of diabetes, or at least has been for us WRT getting good numbers… I wanted to home cook for him, but didn’t trust myself to get it right. I’m pretty anal about a diet being balanced. So I compromised and started feeding The Honest Kitchen base food mix and adding my own protein, which varies from chicken, pork and beef. Of course with all the shortages around, this food has been difficult to obtain at times, so I’ve also used the mixes with the protein (white fish) in them and in both cases, his numbers have remained pretty stable. That said, he’s just one diabetic dog and they’re all different as you’ll find here.
Donna

I will ask my vet more about the stones food. My main vet was telling me that if the storms are calcium oxilate then the food wouldn’t help those any but then I read on my dog food label that they help calcium oxilate So I’m not sure who to go by lol I’ll try to research that more and thanks for the food advise! I will look into The Honest Kitchen.

[StarvedArtist]

Re: Diet Change Advice

what kind of numbers are you seeing with blood sugar ?

As you said first and foremost your dog has to eat day in day out. You hope they enjoy it .

Decent blood sugar control from 100 to 250 is stable sugar for dogs . You would like to avoid big swings in sugar as that's not stable

with other challenges and medication you may have to reduce expectations on decent control but not impossible if you want to put in the work .

As far as homemade diet my jesse was on for her entire 11 year diabetic life . started with raw and that did not work for her delicate digestive system . Its hard to digest all that protean and fat and in my opinion you want something easy to digest for a diabetic dog . I went with a balanced diet that me and Jesse developed over 6 months to a year till we settled on for the rest of her life . did it have everything she needed ? I dont know but she lived longer than most and passed from dog dementia and physically she may have lived many years longer past 16.5 . So I am one not to buy into a homemade diet cant be a good approach with fresh high quality food . Now opinions on that are far and wide

If you have a diet that works with blood sugar and your dog eats it day in day out it maybe good to keep but if your dog is struggling with it as far as consuming than waiting for things to get better maybe like putting a square peg in a round hole . Its up to you how long you want to stay with something

there is no prize for giving the least amount of insulin so if your dog needs more on a certain food does not matter as long as you have adequate control

His blood sugar is usually in the 400 range. Sometimes 500 or 600 and sometimes 200 and 300. It definitely jumps up and down a lot and I know it is not controlled well at all. I feel like it’s his food that is not working for him. And even with adding wet food into it, he still has no interest in it. It’s so weird that it completely changed after he had a little stomach bug. He used to bark over and over as I made his food and scarf it all down but right after the bug, he won’t eat it dry and he still sometimes won’t eat it wet. This morning he only ate half. Its just getting very frustrating as his human on him not eating and his insulin not well controlled so I have a hard time trying to guess and figure out what insulin amount will work for how much he eats at each meal. I know it’ll get better eventually once we get a better diet and system going but it’s discouraging. And I don’t think it’s anything bothering him because they did bloodwork, X-rays and blood pressure since then and everything is fine.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diet Change Advice

https://dogfood.guide/bladder-stones/

thats a link for top dog foods for stones.

is there any meds here that can be cut back?

Gabapentin, Tramadol, Hydrocodone, Thyro tabs, Benazepril, Claritin, trilostane, Purina probiotic tablet, and glucosamine brownie thing.

i.m looking up these meds to see if any could be the root problem of his tummy issue and not wanting to eat or giving a sedation effect.

am i correct in reading he doesnt have stones?

did the vet prescribe antibiotics for the stomach bug?

i would think was thats done he.ll eat alot better

tramadol side effects are loss of appetite. is there another med to replace it?

there seems to be a problem giving claritin and hydrocodone together.

theres 3 meds here given for pain. they all have stomach side issues. i.d ask my vet for more information on discontinuing some.

[StarvedArtist]

Re: Diet Change Advice

https://dogfood.guide/bladder-stones/

thats a link for top dog foods for stones.

is there any meds here that can be cut back?

Gabapentin, Tramadol, Hydrocodone, Thyro tabs, Benazepril, Claritin, trilostane, Purina probiotic tablet, and glucosamine brownie thing.

i.m looking up these meds to see if any could be the root problem of his tummy issue and not wanting to eat or giving a sedation effect.

am i correct in reading he doesnt have stones?

did the vet prescribe antibiotics for the stomach bug?

i would think was thats done he.ll eat alot better

tramadol side effects are loss of appetite. is there another med to replace it?

there seems to be a problem giving claritin and hydrocodone together.

theres 3 meds here given for pain. they all have stomach side issues. i.d ask my vet for more information on discontinuing some.

Thanks for the link! I looked it over and I saw that they say The Honest Kitchen can help with stones because of the moisture content plus that’s one that I’ve seen some of y’all suggest so I went with that one.

I emailed back and forth with my vet for like an hour last night about food, meds, his bladder stones and what we can try switching around.

He currently does not have bladder stones but he has had them twice now and you always have a higher chance of getting them again so a dog is usually kept on a urinary diet to help them be more hydrated and keep the stones away. But my vet said that she would rather change his food and have him eating and not going into diabetic shock than a few stones possibly forming. Hopefully The Honest kitchen will help with both though.

As for the stomach bug, nothing was given because it wasn’t much and didn’t make him really sick. My 14 year old dog started with it first and she was throwing up a little every few hours and not keeping food or her cerenia pill down so I took her to the ER vet and they checked everything and said it was just stomach upset or maybe a little bug. She got better the next morning and then Chinook got it and had the same symptoms but I was able to get his cerenia into his system pretty quick so he only threw up like once or twice and just didnt feel great that day. He was fine though the next day. It was just a little bug because my sisters dogs that live in the same house had a few of throwing up a few times too.

He has severe arthritis in both of his front legs and back pain so that is why he’s on 3 pain meds. But he has lost alot of weight since then and the hydrocodone is actually more for coughing but it seemed to make him act a little better awhile ago so my vet said it was fine if I wanted to keep him on it. But we decided to try taking that away and I’m also going to take the Claritin away and we’ll see how he feels with those gone.

I really think his not eating is just him being picky. He’s been picky with food ever since he’s had to be on urinary food and He’s tried a few different brands and he’ll eat them for awhile and then slowly not want it. Hopefully with this new food being more of a wet food style of food and it being totally different than what he’s ever been on that it’ll do great for him.

I waited to reply to you on here because I got the food this morning and I wanted to see how he did on his first 2 meals of it. He ate it all up and seemed to love it! His BG was 365 before his meal, 284 4 hours post meal and tonight it was 307. So it didn’t have big jumps like his other food was giving him. I gave a tad less insulin today because I need to see how the new food affects his insulin and I’ll slowly increase it till I get his numbers better.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diet Change Advice

good news, and you probably got a few kisses after feeding the wet food.

just a few tweeks and he seems better

vetinsulin 6 units?????

reducing 1/2 a unit at a time is safer thats 50 points. 1 unit change is 100 points

no more changes till you do a curve in 7 days.


only make changes according to his bg lowest number!!

please dont chase numbers, change ups is a process, takes a good 7 days to get a system leveling out.

[jesse girl]

Re: Diet Change Advice

Yep honest kitchen gets good reviews for diabetic dogs and it appears you are seeing similar results . Numbers seem stable from what you posted .

Like anything it's a learning curve but most get to a good place if you do the work and that's what your doing . Hope you see continued improvement

[StarvedArtist]

Re: Diet Change Advice

Thanks for all the excellent advice yall! Still eating well today 🙌🏻 I’ll let ya know how it goes with his BG and all after a week or two.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diet Change Advice

i.d get a pic of both the genteel and pet test lancet check them side by side and see which one is smaller. people are using both. you would think the pet one would be smaller

[StarvedArtist]

Re: Diet Change Advice

i.d get a pic of both the genteel and pet test lancet check them side by side and see which one is smaller. people are using both. you would think the pet one would be smaller

Okay thanks! I’m looking into both and deciding if I wanna get one. I feel like it may be better than using Vaseline every time but then again I do see some people still using Vaseline with it.