awful words

[nfjchester]

my dad said something to me my mom and brother tonight that made me sad . For you that dont know chesters condition he has a heart murmur of 2 diabetes and blind . My dad blew up tonight because we dont leave chester sleep all the time - we like to go up and hug him and talk to him and try to keep him active , he says "my brothers dogs sleep all day - why cant you leave chester alone that poor dog probably wishes he was dead , all my friends say they would put him down because he is suffering " I feel really sad about him saying that - chester still goes out and barks and walks and eats and plays with his favorite toy . Am i being selfish keeping him alive ?????

[peggy0]

Re: awful words

Absolutely not! The heart murmur and diabetes aren't changing his longevity at all. The blindness dogs adapt to quite nicely. When my dog had lymphoma , I worried about his quality of life and my vet told me that if he still is interested in his favorite 3 things, his quality of life is good. He loved his walks, his hot dogs and seeing me coming home. He did that until the day before I had to put him down. Bless you for giving him a good life and loving him.

[CarolW]

Re: awful words

My sympathies to you. I expect your dad wants what is best for Chester, but it seems he's not comprehending - well, that is common enough! It can be difficult to assess how much your dog is enjoying life, how much suffering, and whether the suffering is intense or prolonged.

From your reports on the diabetes discussion forum, and what you have to say here, I think likely, Chester has a good bit of enjoyable life left in him. If that's so, it would be very premature to put him down now. He has a truly devoted caretaker in you, and potential, seems to me, to enjoy life for some time to come.

Your dad does have one valid point, which is, it's a good principle to let sleeping dogs lie; it can be disturbing to, uncomfortable for, the dog, to be awakened repeatedly when he's trying to sleep, even if he's sleeping for many hours in a row. It IS common for dogs to sleep much of the day, as well as at night (but they should not be CONFINED day and night - as, in crates or ex-pens - they should be free to move around when they want).

There's a book that should help you ALL out - all your family. It's one by Dr. Nancy Kay, called _Speaking for Spot_. Here's a link to information about that book:

http://www.coherentdog.org/links.php#nancykay

And if you scroll down a bit from there, there's a link to Dr. Kay's blog, which is very much worth reading.

I think it would be great if you could acquire a copy of that book, and perhaps read it together (or pass it around the family). I think you'd then find it MUCH easier to make decisions - the right decisions at the right time. It's never easy, but I would guess you'd find this book really reassuring, and your family would, too, and your dad would be likely to stop bugging you!

I wake my dogs judiciously if I think they're sleeping a bit too long - give a gentle stroke, but without being invasive about it, and if I get only an eye open as a response, then I leave the dog alone to sleep some more for a while.

Anyway, since I believe you're seeing signs Chester is enjoying his life, I encourage you to lead the way for your family by getting a copy of _Speaking for Spot_, and leading your family also to Dr. Kay's blog.

Do report back!

Love and hugs,

Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:03:35 (PST)

[nfjchester]

Re: awful words

So it is okay to sleep quite a bit in a day ? If he sleeps for a couple hours and then gets up to get a drink or go outside then come back in to sleep - thats normal ? I just don't know how much sleep is too much .What are your pets sleeping patterns ?

[peggy0]

Re: awful words

My 14 year old springer sleeps 20 hours a day. The younger dogs sleep while i'm at work and are pretty active at night until i go to bed. It depends on your routine actually.

[nfjchester]

Re: awful words

My 14 year old springer sleeps 20 hours a day. The younger dogs sleep while i'm at work and are pretty active at night until i go to bed. It depends on your routine actually.

Wow ! so i shouldnt freak out and think something is wrong with him if i do let him sleep .

[CarolW]

Re: awful words

There's a book that did some study - not too rigorous - but the authors determined that dogs need about 17-18 hours of sleep in 24 hours, to avoid undue stress building up. And they were writing of healthy dogs; not that we'd necessarily consider a diabetic dog "unhealthy."

The authors are, if I remember right, Scholz and Reinhardt (not sure), and the title is _Stress In Dogs_. It's not a great book, but has its uses.

It's fine if Chester wakes up, goes out and pees, comes back in, and goes back to sleep.

Disturbing a dog's sleep frequently REALLY builds stress in the dog.

So, Chester should be fine sleeping many hours in a day. It's just fine if he awakens spontaneously and goes out to pee; then comes back and goes back to sleep.

Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:42:28 (PST)

[k9diabetes]

Re: awful words

When Chris was old and had a number of heart problems he slept a lot more than he used to. Instead of staying with us in the living room in the evening, he would go into the bedroom and sleep through the evening.

He was slowly failing / fading. But he did not seem to be uncomfortable and he seemed reasonably happy when he was active. He was a dog who fought to survive more than once in his life and kept going despite his many heart problems. I wasn't about to take that time away from him as long as he wanted to keep going.

Natalie

[silkiegal]

Re: awful words

Sorry, people can say the meanest things and not realize its impact.
I would persoanlly, stay away for a while from anyone who said that to
me. That is insensative. Your family and friends should be supportive, not critical during this difficult time. I would tell them that they hurt my feelings, and to keep there comments regarding my dog, to themselves.

Sleeping alot during the day, especially is what dogs do. Especially dogs with special needs. Your family member who said that is clueless, and quite franky, mean spirited.

And NO, your not being selfish. I would keep my baby alive until he had no interest in eating, and functioning stopped. Your pup is happy and some things still excite him, then keep him around. You will know when its time. Dont let others tell you.

Stay strong!
Silkiegal

[buddingartist]

Re: awful words

Then there is a whole bunch of <selfish< people on this board who simply loved their furry friend and will do anything to give them care, love and as much quality of life as possible.

When Buddy was so very sick and I had a birthday in March and I was too distraught to talk to my sisters, they thought I had lost it, not to mention that they are in shock over the money that we have spent to care for Buddy. I don't care and I am happy that we still have Buddy and that we were there for him to help him come out of these many crisis.

Buddy (diabetic) and Cleo (level 4 heart murmur) are 10+ and occupy the couch and sleep pretty well all day... as long as their TV is on They wake up for their meal, pee and poop, drink, twice daily walks and we get a little play time before dinner. That makes it all worth it.

Don't be sad, just enjoy every day with your baby.
Louise

[CarolW]

Re: awful words

Louise mentioned money, and, oddly, I hadn't thought of that till just now, and then find Louise got there first; haha! - thanks, Louise.

I think there's another attitude, possibly, underlying that - perhaps people who say such things are thinking what they might do with the money spent on the dog. So, underlying THAT could be, "It's just a dog."

And we who spend on the dog, seems to me, are understanding, believing, and supporting with all our energy and money, the notion that a dog is a Creature on Earth, just as we humans are Creatures on Earth, and that we don't attribute importance or rank to a Creature on Earth - who is part of our FAMILY!

Once we have a dog, that doG IS family, and, to my mind, has a g-D-given right to any resources it NEEDS that we are able to provide (often with great effort, and sometimes, assistance from empathic people - at least, that's been my own experience).

Assigning rank or status to a living part of the family in order to compete for money, to me, feels just terrible, and not right; not part of the order of the Universe.

I tell ya, I love this forum, because these views don't show their ugly faces here. On the contrary, each dog who appears on this forum has the benefit of the deep love and commitment from the Human CareTaker and Guide who is the Creature on Earth who has the power and commitment to meet the doG's Real Needs, just as far as all resources - time, energy, money, we can offer.

And what is love? Love is INFINITE. There are no boundaries to Love.

Wed, 1 Dec 2010 06:20:45 (PST)

[buddingartist]

Re: awful words

Amen to that Carol.