Maggie & Caninsulin

[Cheri H]

Hi, I'm new to this forum.
Is the cainsulin suppose to slowly lower Maggies BG?
I gave her 18 units this morning at 7:00 am her BG was 28.7, at 9:00am it was 24.2.
I normally give her shots at 5:00am but this morning she was 4.2 and my vet told me to wait 2 hrs before giving her shot if she was this low.
Please help!

[CraigM]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

Caninsulin (called Vetsulin in the U.S.) I believe does have a tiny amount of faster acting insulin as a part of the formula. The reason is that most dogs' BG will rise when they eat, so the tiny amount of faster acting ingredient would offset that rise. Of course, every dog is different. Sounds like the vet was being very safe to have you delay the insulin by two hours, but you can see that Maggie's food had her BG rise from 4.2 (76mg/dl in the U.S.) to 28.7 (517mg/dl) in the two hour delay. No harm done, because it appears Maggie is now starting back down from the 28.7 to 24.2. Hopefully she will come down into a better range as the day progresses. Let us know.

Welcome to the forum. Tell us about your pup when you have time.

Craig

[jesse girl]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

hi and welcome

with any situation where the numbers are to low at fasting (number before shot ) what we like to do is get those numbers up to a normal fasting number with the use of somethings sugary and or carby . it would be nice to get that number up within an hour which most agree is the max for delaying a shot as not to see overlap into the next shot .

now exercise can give an artificial response to insulin by lowering it and it can be quite dramatic so something to look at if that 4.5 is an anomaly and maybe caused by activity.

if this is a rare occurrence seeing this level (more than likely not low blood sugar ) which does not have very much wiggle room you may think about how you want to respond next time instead of just reacting have a plan in place it appears you are home testing and if home you can monitor a bit more

you can also reduce the dose a bit if you cant get the numbers up to a level that you are comfortable within that hour . its finding the approach that you and your pup are comfortable with

now if the numbers seem to be getting quite low more often and seeing some higher numbers also you maybe giving to much insulin . thats the wonderful thing about testing you catch it before it becomes a big problem

good catch

[Cheri H]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

Hi everyone and thank you for welcoming me.
Maggie also has Cushing, I give her one 60mg vetoryl and half a deramax 100mg.
We found out she was diabetic in Feb 2013. Yes I test her with alpha tract meter.
Today at 11:30am her BG was 10.7, thinking she was going low I gave her a 1/2 of med cal diabetic food.

I checked at 1:15pm because she was labouring breathing, she was 15.2 I gave her another 1/2 cup of food and 8 units of insulin.

At 5:00pm she was 8.2 fed her supper and gave 6 units.
Not sure if what I am doing is right. Any advise is welcomed.

I also have 2 other dogs, 1 has cushing also.

Maggie also didn't have cateracts until I kenneled her this Nov. Now they seem to be getting worse.
Before I kenneled her I changed her insulin to lantus (human) big mistake.
I think this might have had something to do with her getting cateracts.

I want to do right by my girl, so please if you can share your knowledge I would be grateful.

Cheri

[Cheri H]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

Jessie girl:

I didn't know about the one hour delay(when she's low) so I could feed her then in one hour check her and then give her the shot?

CraigM good to know that there in a little fast acting insulin in the cainsulin.

[jesse girl]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

information is key to this disease. yes its good to know if there high or low but most important in the long hall is the pattern and if that has been established through past and present curves .

knowing things like if your pup drops after shot or rises . say for instance your pup rises after insulin which you may not have to delay shot or intervene with additional sugar or carbs but if your pup normally drops then that can be problematic as common sense will tell us. just a couple of examples

now it appears a dogs body does a pretty good job at protecting themselves from low blood sugar and from what i have seen a hypo event is fairly rare except with fairly good size overdose situations, exercise during active insulin or illness of coarse giving insulin without food due to regurgitating food or some other reason.

consistency in food, shots and exercise helps to establish patterns we try to holed true to that especially during the regulation process. its possible in the future you can have more flexibility once you understand the numbers better . of coarse low blood sugar can upset consistency and sometimes needs immediate attention

so yes you can feed and delay the shot for up to an hour check blood sugar at that time if its at a level you are comfortable with then you can give the shot. if its a bit lower you can reduce the dose then give shot . its always good to monitor a bit more if your not sure what the result maybe

[amydunn19]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

Hi and welcome to you and Maggie! I have a Maggie, too!

The biggest thing I see is that you need to get her meals/insulin twelve hours apart. Today, you fed her at 1:15 and gave insulin, then at 5:00 pm, you fed her and gave her more insulin. That is only four hours between shots. Please check her some tonight and make sure she doesn't go low. I am a little worried about overlap. She has quite a bit of insulin in her system.

My rule of thumb is if my Maggie is below 100, I feed her and wait an hour then check her again. If she has not come up enough, I cut her dose down. My dog is on 2 1/2 units so I don't have much to adjust but a half unit can be 100 points different for her.

The other bit of advice I have is not to overfeed her when she has a low. I usually give a carb heavy snack - very small like a biscuit with some karo on it, or a few pieces of kibble. I used to panic and feed her more than she actually needed and she would go way high. It puts them on a roller coaster if you overcorrect but it is easy to do because seeing a low always makes me panic.

[Cheri H]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

Hi amydunn,
Hope your Maggie is doing well.
I really like the advise you gave me about if she drops to just give her a heavy carb snack instead of the cornsyrup which causes her to shot up in BG.
would honey on a piece of white bread be enough?
I did check her before bed and she was at 10.0 so I gave her a cup of food which in turn shot her up to 23.4 in the morning.

How much should I feed her if I think she is gettin low?
I hate pricking her so often but I like to keep her safe. I prick her in the lip and my Maggie hates to have her snout touched.
She has become very good at letting me prick her lip I must say.

Maggie has not been regulated since she's become diabetic, I wish so much that she would become regular.

Hi Jessiegirl,
I agree information is the key. If she is too low can I give the shot in 1 hour without refeeding if the numbers come up?
Thank you for you advise.

[Cheri H]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

Hi,
I don't mean to be anoying with so many questions but do any of you inject into the side instead of the scruff. I read somewhere that there are not many blood vessils in the neck and that it can cause lumps to form.
Is this true?
Another question I have when you tent the skin do you inject from the side your thumb is on or do you inject into the tent?
Thanks

[amydunn19]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

You can give her a small dog biscuit with a little syrup if she is really low. I always check Maggie's sugar about 5 1/2 or 6 hours after her meal and shot. This is usually her lowest time. I have found if I don't give her a small snack, then by her 6 pm feeding and shot time, she could be even lower. I usually give her some all meat freeze dried bites like Bravo Buffalo or Stella and chewy's carnivore crunch or kisses. I also have given her Yoghund frozen yogurt or a Canine caviar sweet potato chew or an Etta Says crunchy duck or deer chew. These are things I have found to be fine for her that don't spike her sugar but give her a small rise.

I can't do white bread because it is a little too much carb. I have used it in an emergency if she is 30 or below. I would only use a small piece. Another thing I have found to not use with my dog is any type of liver treat - there are some treats that are like venison liver or duck liver. The liver treats tend to be too fatty and rich so I avoid those. Another dog may be fine with them but my Maggie has had pancreatitis also.

The key to regulating is consistency - same food, same insulin, same times every day. The only time I change anything is if she is low at dinner time and if she doesn't come up enough, I will reduce her dose.

[amydunn19]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

As far as injecting, I don't use the scruff because Maggie cries. I use the sides and back area(not directly over the spine) and i don't tent - I just pull the loose skin up and inject at lowest point. Tenting was something I never seemed to get proficient at and I keep doing fur shots. Make sure you are changing around your injection site to avoid scar tissue.

Oh, btw, questions are never annoying - that is why we are here!

[Cheri H]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

Thank you Amydunn, Glad I found this forum.

I also pinch the skin and inject at lowest point, tenting doesn't seem to work for my Maggie either. Yes it is right for mornings, left for evenings and I do move it around.

Freeze dried medallions are what I give Maggie as treats. only 75 kcal per medallion.( I break them up into pieces) I also have these marrow bones that are high carb.
I'm getting confused on the measurement of BG. Normal for Maggie the vet said is 5-8, she has gone up to 30.0 before but that is very high for her.
Could you explain your measurements please?

[amydunn19]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

In the states, we use mg/dL and you are using the european measurement of mmol/L. You would think we could all be on the same system Here is a conversion link:
http://diabeticgourmet.com/Tools_and...ugar_Readings/

I don't know what range your vet has told you is an ideal range but I would think if Maggie is at 10 fasting(180 by my measurement) that is not considered low but very normal. Of course, a reading taken out of context doesn' t really say how she is doing on a daily basis. Have you done any 12 hour curves? You start at the morning food/insulin testing and test every 2 hours until the evening meal/dose. This will tell you how she is really doing and what adjustments you should be making. In fact, that will tell you more about her and how she is really doing.

[Auddog]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

Hi there,

When I talked to Bazz's favorite ER vet, this subject of his blood sugar came up. When I looked at the "reference range" for blood glucose in dogs it's listed as 70 - 138 mg/dL (which is 3.89 - 7.67 mmol/L). I told him I was happy when Bazz was in a range of 130 - 250 mg/dL (7.22 - 13.89 mmol/L). Our vet told us not to worry because the reference range is really for a non diabetic pup, and that just goes to show you how good the body is at regulating its own blood sugar.

Remember we are trying to replace a very complex system with 2 injections and meals that are 12 hours apart. Because of a hypoglycemic episode Bazz had, I actually get nervous when he starts to flirt with 100 mg/dL (5.56 mmol/L). I agree with Amy, if you can do a 12 hour curve it will give you a better picture of what her blood sugar is doing during the day.

Hope to hear from you soon

Audrey & Bazzle

[Cheri H]

Re: Maggie & Caninsulin

Thank you for explaining the measurements to me. I don't understand why we are not on the same M. table either .
I have taken her for curves at the vet but Maggie is stressed out at the vet.
I will do a curve tomorrow and let you know the figures, thanks for suggesting this to me.