Max the Westie

[wehrto]

Re: Max the Westie

Yes, he's alone and probably sleeping most of the day during the week. Morning numbers are always higher 300 or higher and 6pm pre-meal readings have been 200 and under this past week. Seems to be a trend, I think the week is looking good then I get to the weekend when we are at home and curves are always higher. Thought more activity during the weekend would bring numbers down. Maybe exercise and chasing groundhogs is more stress that brings numbers up than down. I just can't seem to get consistent numbers with him. Several curves I tried to have the day as quiet as possible and keep him in the house as he would be during the week but, nope, numbers high. Maybe we both need to take meditation lessons!

[wehrto]

Re: Max the Westie

This may be a dumb question, I just went to start a new vial of Novolin and I noticed a two clumps of white settled in the bottom. Shall I take back to Walmart?

[Charlie's mom]

Re: Max the Westie

New bottles need to be gently rolled a little more the first few times you use them

Ps..no question is dumb, we've all been there!

[amydunn19]

Re: Max the Westie

Max may have hurt himself jumping or in the yard. When I leave Maggie and Mya, they are closed off in the bedroom so they jump on a bench onto a blanket I place on top of the comforter of our bed. He may have just landed the wrong way.

One of the curves you did was mainly 300's and 200's - I consider pretty flat to be within 100-150 points from start to finish. I can't remember the date it was but I didn't see a huge range of numbers.

If you see 500 in the morning and then 100 at some point during the day, then that would be pretty unstable and too large of a drop and wouldn't allow much room to change insulin. If you increased it in that scenario, it would probably cause the low to go even lower to a possibly dangerous level. But, if all your numbers are closer together and just higher, then you can safely go up and expect them to fall accordingly. It doesn't always happen that way but it is a reasonable expectation.

[wehrto]

Re: Max the Westie

I'll roll the bottle some more maybe the clumps will break up.

He did not have 500 numbers until he was on the antibiotics, don't know how long it takes to get out of his system. I can only hope to have a flat curve tomorrow. One day at a time......

[k9diabetes]

Re: Max the Westie

If the clumps break up quickly and easily with gentle rolling and it stays pretty well mixed, I wouldn't be concerned about the insulin - but would still keep an eye on his blood sugar to see if the bottle seems to be working the same as the last one.

If the clumps don't readily mix in, I would take it back to the pharmacy and ask them to replace it.

One day at a time......

That is a good approach.

Natalie

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Max the Westie

Hi

can you tell us when the antibiotics were started and the name of the antibiotic?

mo

[wehrto]

Re: Max the Westie

Most of the clumps broke up but I still see a small portion that did not. I will keep an eye on his sugar, I started the bottle this morning. AM fasting number today 540!! As numbers seem to keep creeping up I am looking over everything I am doing. I changed his food combination since he started hesitating in eating the DCO (will not eat WD) up to the point it was taking 15 minutes of coaxing to get him to eat then he would not finish. I'll try to make a long story short. Changed his food to 1/2 Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight Adult and 1/2 Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Diet on 8/3. Numbers varied between mid 300's to low 200's occasionally hitting low 100's, sometimes hitting 400's. Needed a new bag of BB, well I am looking at the bag this morning and I bought BB Healthly Weight, however it is "Small Breed". Looking up and comparing the ingredients on Food Advisor I see that the analysis is totally different! The first bag was 20 protein, 6 fat and 7 fiber. The small breed is 25, 9, 4. I started the new bag on 9/8. Could this be the reason for the high numbers now??? I've been adding 1/2 tsp on Benefiber since the initial switch on 8/3, should I up the Benefiber since this small breed BB is lower in fiber? Or do I start all over? Natalie I've read Chris' story over an over and you were lucky Chris ate the WD however you certainly went through a great deal to find the right match of insulin for him. We're into this 5 months and I am unsure if I should keep changing foods to try to match with his Novolin N? I am trying to obtain a flat curve but there are just some very high numbers as a few low numbers here and there that I don't trust changing his Novolin dosage.

His antibiotic was Calvamox and he was on it from 8/28 through 9/4.

[amydunn19]

Re: Max the Westie

Higher protein can cause some higher numbers. I think you have to look at the foods and their carb and protein sources because even if the analysis percentages match up perfectly, the actual content of the food will cause different reactions to insulin. Anytime that you change food, you will be changing insulin and you should test more frequently to make sure a new food doesn't drop them too low. When I switched Maggie to a food that her allergist suggested for a food trial, I had to drastically drop her insulin and feed her four times a day. I went back to BB Healthy Weight, we were at about 5 units, and when I changed again because she didn't do well with her digestion, we had go drop to 2 units on Nutrisca. Her numbers are in the lower ranges now so I have to add some extras in but we are not throwing up every meal anymore. Always a trade-off, I guess.

Food and insulin balance is a very delicate thing - the slightest things can change the whole thing.

[wehrto]

Re: Max the Westie

He's been on the higher protein food now, would I be seeing higher numbers in just one week? And will the fasting numbers be higher? I would guess the drop in fiber is also a factor? I will take a closer look at the ingredients between the two BB Healthy Weight. Amy, I believe you mentioned before that you gave a new food one month to give true results, if I don't see lower numbers or a flat curve it would be time to move on to a different food, correct. Or move on to a different insulin to try to match to the food he is eating? Maggie's on Novolin, how long did it take you to find a good food match?

[amydunn19]

Re: Max the Westie

Her issue was more finding something she would eat willingly - I figured I could always figure the insulin part out. Luckily, Novolin N seems to work with our current routine. I might could get better with something else but I wouldn't change now for $1 million dollars. Literally. It took us forever to get it right.

I see immediate blood sugar spikes if I give Maggie a high protein food or big snack. I use Stella and Chewy's sometimes for lows and it is super high in protein. I tried to feed it for a while and her fasting numbers were huge then she would drop to 100's in six hours. The carb components just have to be there for her. There may be dogs out there that can do ok with high protein but most high protein foods give high fasting numbers and wide swings. For some dogs, it takes a month to settle into a new food. New ingredients cause their bodies to change sometimes the way they break it down.

You really have to look at Max's curves and I would look at several before deciding about food or insulin and whether one works or doesn't at this point. You need to do 12 hour curves a week apart to tell how the food is doing. Spot checks won't tell much.

I look at food and insulin as a balancing act. If your numbers are wildly swinging or you have numbers in the low 100 range, you can't up N insulin no matter what your high is. This is a situation where you can change the equation by bringing in R or changing the food balance slightly because you can't do more N insulin. I look at changing insulins as a last resort for me. I couldn't ever do levemir because it is 4 times as powerful as N and she takes a small amount so that is not doable for us.

If you like feeding the current food and his numbers are all high, an adjustment upward with N may solve the problem and the numbers may not drop proportionally so it is always worth a try as long as you are around and testing.

I know it is kind of confusing because the rules are not the same for all dogs because of the way they react. This is why you may have to test a great deal while you are trying to get him to a good place. It is the only way to know what works for him. There are several ways to attack this type of problem but it requires patience and testing to get it right.

[wehrto]

Re: Max the Westie

Yes, Craig did mention bringing R into the equation, I'll have to see how the difference in the BB Small Breed from the regular BB Healthy weight affects his bg. He never refuses his food since off the WD and DCO so it would be great if this food worked out for him. I guess if the split between the Natural Balance LID and the BB doesn't seem to be working I can up the LID later in the food trial. Anything to get a tight curve, I guess at this point I could only hope for a higher, tight curve and be able to up the Novolin N. Sometimes he just seems to drop so quickly and more than 200 from low to high during the curve days that I don't think I could have increased the dose. Patience.

[amydunn19]

Re: Max the Westie

What is his most recent curve? Any with the new food?

[wehrto]

Re: Max the Westie

I did not do a curve today since learning the BB Healthy Weight Small Breed ingredients are different than the BB Healthy Weight and he's only been eating it one week. The last 2 curves with the BBHW were
6am 313 387
8am 296 390
10am 403 355
12pm 404 422
2pm 391 419
4pm 346 346
6pm 286 315
8pm 192 151
10pm 207 212

Does it seem odd that the evening numbers were lower and dropped faster than the morning? Could his right side (evening shot site) be absorbing the insulin faster? Same food morning and evening, weighed each time. Looking back at prior food and curves this did not occur.

[amydunn19]

Re: Max the Westie

Those numbers are pretty tight until you get to the evening. It could be absorption - you could try using one side for a day and see if there is a difference. Another explanation may be the activity level from day to evening. I always give Maggie more insulin at night because she is more active during the day(she goes to work with me so she is pretty tired when we get home). If you are gone all day, Max may sleep more in daytime and then get excited and happy when you get home. Some dogs need less at night and more in the daytime. Or is there another difference in routine that may explain it? I only give Maggie 1/2 unit more at night, so it is not a huge difference.

This is pretty common for one half of the day to look a little different so you can compensate by giving a slightly different dose morning and night.