Baby Girl Passed on 2/27/16

[lab lover]

Re: Lab Lover

Natalie

I just checked my notes when I was talking to the vet I have written down simple carbs - so either I am not hearing too good or someone made a big mistake. I called the ER and they said if her levels are going down not too worry. In this town I don't think too many people worried about anything.

[lab lover]

Re: Lab Lover

That's the problem one call's me and changes the food and the other one call's and changes the dosage. I need to get this straighten out tomor they are the one's that are confusing me. I hate the thought of changing vets again but, I will if I have too the next one is in Knoxville 1 hour or more away from us. I want to thank you so so much for helping I just get very nervous and not knowing enough drives me crazy. Thank you so much again. I am going back to what I was feeding her until I get ans from the vet. Baby thanks you too for having a nutty mom. I guess my age is gettng to me as I get older I seem too worried too much about everything. Have a good night and I will let yu know how she is in the am. Ida

[We Hope]

Re: Lab Lover

Ida,

First thing I would do tomorrow is to insist on a word with the owner of the hospital.

Baby had possibly a trace of ketones--that's not so serious as when you get into things like moderate and high.

I don't believe you would mistake hearing "simple" when someone else said "complex"--they don't even sound alike.

You're going to need to feed her what you have in the morning and stick with the 17 units until you get a chance to talk with the head vet.

I would continue checking Baby's urine to see if she's now negative for the ketones.

And before the sun sets tomorrow evening, I would have a plan for Baby worked out with the head vet for both what she should be eating, how much of it, and whether you should stay with 17 units or not.

Then I think Baby's on the right track because there will be only you and one doctor to manage things for her. I would simply tell him that either we can work this one out with you handling Baby's care or I will need to see someone else who's willing to do it this way with me.

Kathy

Adding here--I used to go through the same thing with my mother when she was hospitalized with the residents. Every one had a different tune to play. I just told them I needed to hear what they were saying from her attending. Solved MANY problems like that because he had something entirely different to say.

[lab lover]

Re: Lab Lover

I'm back up and it is 3:30 am she was whimpering so I checked her bg is is 384 so it went back up again. I can't get her out to go bathroom it is so cold and she won't go. I know she is uncomfortable and I feel bad for it I should of asked more questions. I took care of my mom for seven yrs and she passed away at 91 she was bedridden with a feeding tube, catheret, arthiritis, many more problem and I ran the shipped when it came to doctor's, test and being in the hospital if I didn't think something was right and I didn't feel she needed a test, or medication that would make her worse I spoke up - so I can't understand why I am not dealing with this so good. (They always would marvel how wonderful my mom was doing for her aged and said I did a good job) and now I can't even figured this out for my dog.

I went through a couple of vet's when we lived in Miami, (wished we were still back there) so I guess I will have to do it here too. Hopefully he will understand even if I went to his co-worker first I don't think that matters. I have my own problems losing a leg in a car accident 35 yrs ago and I have to go to Miami, on April 9th to see a doctor and I am afraid I may have to cancelled if I can't get her regulated or at least stable by then because my husband doesn't worry like I do, and he doesn't understand the consequences if food and shots are not on time checking her regularly. I am always around if something medical had too be done for the dogs but, this time I need to be gone for five days. Keep your fingers across I can get through to this vet to helped me out. Thanks again, Ida

[eyelostit]

Re: Lab Lover

Ida, sorry you had such a rough nite, Baby did eventually go down with her bg, that's good. Don't get too down on yourself, this takes some time to understand, and with 2 vets telling you two different things, I'd be a wreck also.

I found the 2 books I mentioned to you on Amazon, I just went there.
The first is the Dogs Diets and Diseases book, great section on canine diabetes.

http://www.amazon.com/Dogs-Diet-Disease-Diabetes-Pancreatitis/dp/0967225329/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238451620&sr=1-1

This is the Carbohydrate Counter book
http://www.amazon.com/NutriBase-Nutrition-Facts-Desk-Reference/dp/1583330011/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238452642&sr=1-1
You can get free shipping on orders of 25.00, don't know if this is still the same, check out the used books also, sometimes its cheaper to go that way.

Also Check Ebay sometimes they are even cheaper there.

Dolly

[lab lover]

Re: Lab Lover

I will checked them out tomorrow - thanks Dolly sounds liked they will helped me a lot.

[lab lover]

Thanks for the help Natalie and Kathy

Thank you both for helping last night I was such a wreck I hope you both understand I am not adjusting to Baby having diabetes yet and when I see the high's and low's I get depressed that it will never end or I am doing something wrong. Everyone is picking up on all the knowledge you give them and I still get confused.

Baby started out with 334 this morning at 7:30
1:00pm 209
2:30pm 179
4pm 205
6pm 307

Just wanted to update you on what the vet said he recommended that I keep her on the 17 units, feed her 1/2 can solid gold, 3/4 dry, 1/2 cup of chicken and 1/4 cup of string beans. I did mentioned to him I would liked to asked for him because of the confusion between both vets - (per my post last night) he is there 5 days and off on Thurs so this will make it a lot easier for me to get a hold of him. I also brought her urine up and when he called me she had no keytone's, but, very high in glucose - I forgot to asked the number but, will get a copy tomorr. Now she has too be on antibotics for another two wks he is concerned she will get another UTI, she only had till thurs to get off of them and now we start all over again.

Maybe, I am checking her too much and that is making me so nervous when I see the high range but, than I think if I don't checked her she could dropped like she did last wk. I have gone thru one vial and maybe 15 left in another vial of the alpha strips so I need to start using the Relion monitor or I will be going broke. It is such a shame they charged so much for those strips with the Alpha Track I can do it under a min but, with the other one it takes me a lot longer and I get frustrated.

Hopefully this food will worked out and the 17 units will helped her levels all I know is I did not sleep at all and Baby was snoozing the whole time. Maybe, in time I will be secured enough to adjust her food and be able to figured out what is making the high's and the low's. I had time to read some of the post and I did not realized that the heat and cold made a difference in the levels. It gets really hot in the valley here in the summer so I will not be walking her till the evening. Also, I have to start her on Frontline soon and wonder if that bother's the diabetes since last yr she was ok and thru the winter here no need for it but, soon the flea's and ticks will be around. Also, I used Heartguard Plus, for the heart worms and when I was looking over her readings I noticed the day after I gave her the pill that was the day she dropped to 70 does the heartguard plus aggravate the diabetes?

Just wanted to say thanks again sorry I was such neurotic last night. Have a good night. Ida

[peggy0]

Re: Thanks for the help Natalie and Kathy

Ida, I still panic over lows and worry that Forbin may be too low and I'm not checking him. You don't need to apologize as we have all been through it!! I have now learned when to expect Forbins lows and if I'm concerned I'll test him at those times. Peace of mind is a must. Any change with food or meds kind of throws it all up in the air somewhat and we have to figure it out again. The folks here will help at all times! I've sent out plenty of SOS. Hope baby and you have a peaceful night.

[We Hope]

Re: Lab Lover

Ida,

First of all, congratulations on having "landed" a permanent vet! This is going to make this a lot less stressful!

I can see where he's coming from with the worry about the UTI; when you have the higher bg's and the sugar goes into the urine, it's a great breeding ground for bacteria.

On the AlphaTrak, what you're saying about the cost of the strips is what I've heard everyone who uses it say--they're expensive, moreso than the strips for the human meters. This is why you see a lot of people here say they use their human meter for "everyday" testing. I think when you use the ReliOn meter more, as you're going to do to save $, you'll get just as comfortable with that as you are with the AlphaTrak.

If you want to walk Baby in the summer and not have to be confined to the evenings, you could try for early mornings before it gets hot, or you could take a shorter walk during the day if it's warm.

With the flea and heartworm preventions, when you have a problem, every one I knew about (including my own) had high, not low, bg's from them. This doesn't happen to every dog with diabetes who uses either or both types of prevention--only some. I don't think the Heartguard affects Baby in the least--otherwise you would have never seen the 70.

Baby is doing a nice job of coming down from her high bg's of last night; it takes about 2-3 days for those bg's to "settle" down again to normal levels after a high. Being consistent with your insulin dose is what gets them back into line once more.

When you saw something that wasn't right, you were absolutely right to ask questions as you did last night!

Kathy

[eyelostit]

Re: Lab Lover

Hi,

I'd use the Relion Meter, it will show any lows, I use this more than the Alphtrak.

[eyelostit]

Re: Lab Lover

Copied from Ida's post, Need to see this by itself for Baby, 17 units this AM and tonight

"Baby started out with 334 this morning at 7:30
1:00pm 209
2:30pm 179
4pm 205
6pm 307

Just wanted to update you on what the vet said he recommended that I keep her on the 17 units, feed her 1/2 can solid gold, 3/4 dry, 1/2 cup of chicken and 1/4 cup of string beans. "

food was decreased to 3/4 C per the vet

Tonight readings

307 at fast 6:00 pm
257 at 8:00
215 at 10:00 pm
211 at 11:00 pm

Dolly

[k9diabetes]

Re: Lab Lover

Perhaps invest in a OneTouch Ultra. It even got a good review from the UCD Vet Teaching Hospital...

ACVIM 2008 Abstract

Evaluation of Six Portable Blood Glucose Meters in Dogs.
T. Cohen, R. Nelson, P. Kass, E. Feldman
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis

The purpose of this study was to evaluate six portable blood glucose meters (PBGMs) - AlphaTrak, OneTouch, Elite XL, AccuChek, Precision, Contour - for use in dogs. One hundred fifty-eight venous blood samples were asayed for glucose using all PBGMs in randomized order and by a reference hexokinase method. Results from the PBGMs and reference hexokinase method (HM) were compared.

HM blood glucose concentrations ranged from 41 to 639 mg/dl. There was excellent correlation between PBGMs and HM results (table). Results were consistently low for 4 PBGMs compared with HM results. High and low results were common with the AlphaTrak. The difference in results between PBGMs and HM increased as blood glucose concentrations increased. Difference in results between PBGM and HM were significantly (p<0.0001) less for the AlphaTrak and OneTouch and significantly (p<0.01) higher for the Contour compared with other PBGMs. Problems with correct identification of hypoglycemia (<70 mg/dl), normoglycemia (70-120 mg/dl), and hyperglycemia (>200 mg/dl) varied between PBGMs (table).

Percent Incorrect from Reference Range
AlphaTrak -- 18
OneTouch -- 21
EliteXL -- 45
AccuChek -- 45
Precision -- 49
Contour -- 73


Results of this study support use of the AlphaTrak and OneTouch glucose meters based on significantly closer results with HM.

I bought strips from www.hocks.com and they currently run about 70 cents each. There are undoubtedly less expensive deals around for them.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Lab Lover

Those numbers tonight look good Ida!

[lab lover]

Re: Lab Lover

Update on Baby - per eyelostit post

At 11pm last night I decided to give Baby 1/4 cup of dry food and teaspoon of dog food I was concerned she was dropping so fast and in the middle of the night she could have gone under 100 while we were sleeping. I woke up at 4am to test her she was 453. Does this mean either it was the increase in the dosage (17units) or deleting 1/4 cup of dry food and adding 1/2 can dog food. One night I am worried that she is so high after her feeding and shot, and than the next night she is dropping so low so fast.

This is the first time she started too drop after the feeding and shot that fast.

Maybe, she doesn't need that extra unit he recommended. Help!

Ida

At 6:00am Baby's reading dropped too 346 - also last night after her 8pm reading I put some antibotic ointment on her pads - they were getting so red from all the testing could that have gave me an error in the reading at 10 and 11pm? I usually cleaned her elbow pads after every reading with peroxide too.

[peggy0]

Re: Lab Lover

I'll leave it to the experts, but I wouldn't have given her food and left it alone. After the 11p reading, her BGs would probably have gone up some given it was passed the first peak for the insulin.