Newbie needing help

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newbie needing help

one number doesnt mean a whole lot. did Max have anything to eat between breakfast and supper that would raise his blood sugar?

how much does Max weigh?

when was his last blood work up?

how long has he been on 7 units?

how long has he been on his new food?

is there an internal medicine vet around you?

your doing good keeping him stable.

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

You can get errors on these meters on the low and high side . They are far from perfect and as long as he is not showing physical symptoms things are more than likely ok . Any time you have a number out of the ordinary retesting maybe helpful . Unless you see a change in the overall pattern over a few days to a week or symptomatic changes things are probably ok .

As far as reducing the dose do to large swings in blood sugar . If that's the norm than you do have an imbalance of some sort . Another possibility is comparing another meter to what you have . I did that with a few different human meters as thats all I used on Jesse and they were mostly at the same level overall which gave me confidence in our testing especially at the lower levels

I am not sure how consistent you are with daily routines as they do have an impact if they change . Even a small temporary change can have a short term impact
Remember one test is just one moment in time

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

Thanks for your replies!
I don’t know how many of you currently have dogs in need of veterinary care, but since Covid, vets are in short order and the lines are long. When I brought Max almost two weeks ago, I was told they no longer do dentals (he needs one), but I would be contacted by a vet that comes there to do them. Crickets since then…
In fact, I’ve requested a T3/T4 to check his Thyroid (I have had him tested for Cushings and it was negative), but I guess they don’t even have a tech available to do the blood draw as they’ve not called me back…
As far as specialist, they’re not out there… I’ve called several and have never gotten a call back – I’m on my own…
The last vet visit was her calling the shots, which to me was BS. When she found out I was feeding grain free, it was her escape route into turning the appointment into checking for heart conditions, rather than addressing his diabetes. I told her I was supplementing him with Taurine, but she didn’t even know what that was. She made me put him on Hills W/D, which has done nothing except elevate his BGs…
I fear Max will die despite my having the funds to test and treat because nobody out there is willing to take his case on…
Donna

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

I forgot to add, I test him several times a day with the Alpha track II, which I'm really questioning its accuracy...

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newbie needing help

Hi

you are doing a great job with Max. and Max is reallly tolerating getting tested and being fed new foods very well.

let us see a 12 hour curve after 7 days on the wd food and 7 units of vetinsulin insulin please. this will help us help you and Max.

it could be he needs a change in insulin to novolin nph which is more concentrated. if you decide to go this route after the curve you need different syringes and because nph is more concentrated you.ll need to drop back his 7 unit does.

we can help but we need you to post this curve after 7 days of no treats, no changes in exercise, insulin or food in order to get an accurate true reading.

i left my vet a week after diagnosis and relied on a - diabetic dog support information group- to help me change foods, insulin, almost everything. vetinsulin didnt work for Riliey nor did the food.

he went blind in 6 months while i was trying to figure all this diabetes dog.

remenber to test after feeding. if Max is under 200 test and wait till hes over 200 to avoid going too low.

at some point in our diabetic dog journey we.ve all had to fly by the seat of our pants.

all we here in the forum can do to help you ia ask questions. every dog is different.

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

Jesse went 11 years without seeing a vet till she went for the last time in june . Many might not agree with that but we had some poor professionalism I was actually afraid to bring her in . My own life I went maybe 30 years not seeing a doctor

Jesse lived a very long life with diabetes without any vets intervention . Right or wrong thats how we did it to give some perspective . You do what you need to do and sometimes its a bit scary not knowing if you are going in the correct direction but if your heart is in the right place you are doing all you can

[k9diabetes]

Re: Newbie needing help

Hi Donna,

We have found that some diabetic dogs really need some carbs in their diet to balance out the insulin action. Some so much so that they needed something highly digestible like oatmeal or crackers!

And the response to various carbs varies significantly dog to dog. Some dogs have been given oatmeal and gotten lovely flattening of a curve when added to a mostly protein diet. Others have had their blood sugar go through the roof shortly after a meal that included oatmeal.

It's all very dog dependent.

WD does work well for many diabetic dogs and can require a reduction in insulin. I know many aren't a fan of the ingredients, but I've been on forums for diabetic dogs since 2004 and I've seen a LOT of dogs do fantastically well on it and live long healthy happy lives.

So if the current food doesn't seem to be working, it is worth considering it so long as no allergies to the ingredients.

It's also important to consider potential honeymooning, which can make an insulin look like a fabulous choice in the beginning but turn out to be a poor choice they totally lose their ability to produce any insulin of their own.

Our dog's diabetes was caught early and he honeymooned for months with very flat curves and blood sugar too low. We dropped the dose repeatedly until he was almost off of insulin. But then, when the honeymoon was over, we found that the insulin we had been giving wasn't a good match for him at all. His blood sugar climbed for hours and then dropped sharply approaching his next meal. We got much better control when we changed insulins.

So curves are the key.

And never change something based on a single high blood sugar reading.

Things happen, including high readings out of nowhere that do not require an adjustment. The insulin dose should always be based on how LOW the blood sugar is going. And then, if there is a big difference between highest and lowest blood sugar, you can adjust diet and/or timing to obtain a flatter curve.

It all starts with a curve or two or three on a stable regimen so you can see exactly what is happening during the day on that regimen. If you post the curve, we can see if adjustments are needed.

Not sure if you've read Chris' case history, but we went to the vet who wrote the book on canine diabetes used to teach vets all over the country. He was terrible... and eventually we wound up managing our dog's diabetes on our own. It's not where you start - you need to gain experience with your dog's version of food and insulin and exercise. But over time, with home testing you can become much more knowledgeable about Max's "book" than a vet could ever be.

On a side note, we have a dog now who wasn't on grain free but still may have been affected by inadequate taurine. He developed a heart murmur five or six years ago and we have been supplementing with taurine every since. That was on the advice of a veterinary cardiologist - possibly outside the knowledge of many general practice veterinarians. He's just recently started taking Vetmedin as his leaky valve has gotten a bit worse.

Natalie

So I went to my vet appointment today and it was as bad as I expected it to be… I honestly think I know more about diabetes than she did… She read the curves, then asked me what I fed. I told her Acana Heritage meat and she immediately brought out a spreadsheet (from Hills Science Diet I might add) that showed Acana to be the worst in the ongoing battle about cardiac disease in grain free diets… I’ve read the published articles about this and I know it’s from too much pea protein, which Acana doesn’t have much of. But she persisted. I also told her I do supplement with Taurine, which she had not heard of??? This is where the whole grain-free debacle stated from??? WHF? Anyway, she was more interested in trying to find something wrong with his heart (which she couldn’t) than helping him with his diabetes…
When I asked about a fast acting insulin, she also had no idea what that was???
She insisted if I put him on Hills W/D, his problems would go away, and if they didn’t, he’d need to see an internal medicine specialist at the school she recently graduated from… And that gives me what hope?
I bought a bag of the food she recommended and left there very disappointed and about $300 poorer. We’re on our own now….
Donna and Max

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

I’ve just been given a second full time job, so my curves are fewer, but here is what I have today:
Wednesday
5:30
Unknown
Breakfast and Insulin
9:00
337
Resting
4:00
185
Excited, after a ride
5:30
Unknown
Dinner and Insulin
7:00
353
Resting
I really wish I could get a reading before breakfast, but that’s impossible for us as the shark feeding frenzy begins at 5:15 in the morning…
Donna and Max, the pin cushion

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

This is becoming unhindged. Yesterday, Max started with a weepy eye, which I attributed to the sudden cold here (in the 20s), but didn’t go away today and he’s got a constant wink, so I made a vet appointment, to my surprise, the clinic I go to must have hired another vet as he’s seeing one I haven’t yet heard of tomorrow afternoon! I’m praying for a better outcome than we’ve had…He’s had cataracts for about 3-4 years during which time he never had diabetes, and yes, I do bloodwork yearly. Today, he can hardly open this eye and it’s not conjunctivitis as it’s not goopy, just clear tears running from it.
I quit the Hills W/D about a week ago (after a 4 week trial) as it wasn’t helping his BGs at all and he actually gained 1.5 pounds on it… I’m back to feeding him what I had him on prior to his diabetes diagnosis, Fromm Senior. I’m doing a curve now and things look a bit better, hopefully they’ll stay that way!
Wish us luck!
Donna and Max the pin cushion Corgi

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

Fingers and paws crossed for a productive outcome .

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

So we had our vet appointment and while this doc is new to the practice, she not a new vet by any stretch and is probably older than me, which is older than dirt!!! LOL
He somehow scratched is cornea, which is the reason for his eye issue. We also discussed his diabetes, which is obviously not regulated. I asked about doing a T3/T4 on him, and she agreed it would be a good idea, but would rather do a free T4 as she felt the other could show a false positive given his Diabetes. I like her thinking!
We’re going back on Tuesday to get the eye rechecked (he’s been given Ofloxacin drops – 4-6 times a day) and will draw blood for the free T4 then. Wish us luck!
Donna and Max the Corgi Pin Cushion

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

Thanks for the update

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

So I brought Max for a recheck yesterday. His scratched cornea has not improved. She suggested a double appointment at Tufts to see both an endocrinologist and an optimilologist. This is going to cost me $400 to just walk in the door! No tests included and as I’ve been to Tufts before, they insist on re-running everything that’s already been done before… This is looking like a $5k bill before they even offer suggestions…

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newbie needing help

you.ve heen busy

hows his bg with the new Ophloxacin drops. is it helping Max?

the eye drops were started on the 10th. i.d been waiting for a month for results before taking another step.

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

Yep . It was close to 10 grand after my Jesses first 3 weeks with surgery and emergency vet stays Jesse prognosis wasn't very good even 6 months after but she pulled through and it was well worth it . She had 2 more $400 dollar procedures . the first failed at one vet so I went to another with great success . After that the next 11 years she had no vet bills until her last day . so if you figured her lifetime of vet costs it may have worked out to about $ 800 per year . Pet insurance may have been a good option for her but I did not have a crystal ball .