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**k9diabetes** · 10-06-2009, 08:58 AM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Hi Karen,

Sorry to hear that Finnegan is so uncomfortable! Poor guy.

Any time I see skin conditions, a couple of possibilities come to mind...

Allergies - food, meds, seasonal environmental, fleas... lots of potential causes.

Other endocrine problems, which are pretty common in diabetics - low thyroid, Cushings disease

Auto-immune attacks that cause lesions in the skin.

Does he have sores or is he "just" itchy?

Has he had allergies before?

Natalie

**kharmar** · 10-06-2009, 04:18 PM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

He now has bloody areas where he is both scratching and licking.. on his tail end, under his front arms..
He does have flea allergies and that's why I give him Advantage... I tried shampooing him with oatmeal/tea tree and nothing worked yet..
He has had two doses of the anti itch homepathic stuff. but I hear him scratching now in his kennel.
Someone suggested benadryl? ( she breeds dogs for a living)
Not sure how to give that to him. but might be worth a shot,..
thanks for the reply Natalie, I appreciate that..
Karen

**We Hope** · 10-06-2009, 04:31 PM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Karen,

We had a little Shih Tzu who was extremely troubled with allergies. At one point she was on Temaril-P and needing cortisone shots too. Our vet suggested rinsing her down in baking soda water to help stop the itching. So when Heidi had problems, we'd get her into the tub and not shampoo her, just rinse her with the baking soda water.

It's not a drug so you can do this as many times as needed. Temaril-P wouldn't be a good idea for Finnegan because it contains a steroid, just like the cortisone shots.

Do know of some people who have used the Benadril, but they've done it on the advice of their vet because the dosing would go according to body weight.

Hope something helps Finnegan!

Kathy

**BestBuddy** · 10-06-2009, 04:37 PM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Another simple itch remedy is putting oats in a stocking and swishing it around a tub of warm water and put the dog in for 5-10 minutes then just towel dry.

Jenny

PS It works for humans too!

**k9diabetes** · 10-06-2009, 04:52 PM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Can you connect a change - in food, meds, environment - that matches the onset of this itching?

Allergies are a very likely cause and an anti-histamine a likely treatment.

What does the vet say?

Our dog was actually allergic to NPH, to the protamine in it most likely. It is possible to be allergic to components of the insulin preparation. In our dog's case it showed up as stiffness and myalgia (pain) but it's more common for any allergy to show up as itching.

Temeril P for itching, mostly in the ears, is what our dog was on when he became diabetic. It contains some prednisone steroid.

I would look very closely at what might have changed when this started to happen.

We were surprised at some food allergies Chris had. For example, we switched from Science Diet WD to Science Diet Lite, which was almost exactly the same stuff except the Science Diet Lite had soy in it while the WD did not and Chris was apparently allergic to soy.

Sometimes the food manufacturers change the content of their foods and add something your dog is allergic to that didn't used to be in it.

You never know - you might be able to identify a trigger that you could eliminate. I figure it's worth a shot.

And the vet should look to make sure there aren't infections or other causes.

Natalie

**We Hope** · 10-06-2009, 05:05 PM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Now that Natalie mentions it, it's also possible for the drugs you use to change too. Not the active ingredient (the one that's meant to help your problem), but the inert ingredients--what may hold the med together in pill form etc.

Back in the old days when heartworm meds were daily instead of monthly during the season, after taking the drug for years, Heidi started throwing up every day after taking it.

It took a bunch of time and phone calls to the pharmaceutical company by John's Dad but he finally was able to talk with someone in their chemistry department.

As they'd been saying, no, the drug itself hadn't changed a bit. But they had changed some of the base or inert ingredients in it since the year before. Heidi didn't have issues with the drug itself, but with whatever changes had been made to the inert ingredients. We changed her to another brand of heartworm meds with different inert ingredients and the problem was gone.

Lucky, who had never been treated for allergies all his life, started telling us about his after diabetes was in the picture. Like Chris, he was intolerant of the NPH protamine suspension and the preservatives of NPH.

He had no issues with Lente insulin provided it was pork. He had some bad ones with the pork NPH which only getting off it and back to pork Lente solved.

Kathy

**eyelostit** · 10-07-2009, 12:47 AM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Hi,

Have you always used Advantage?

I can't really add to whats been mentioned, but I think you could try some cornstarch under the arms etc.

Is it damp or rainy where you are?

Dolly

**kharmar** · 10-07-2009, 05:03 AM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Thanks for all the replies, they all make sense, it is just figuring out which one it is..
I bathed him last night with baking soda and gave him more of the fish oils and homeopathic stuff, but he is still scratching non stop
mostly his torso...
I am going to take him to the vet just to ease this scratching.. I do like to solve these problems myself. and this one is frustrating me.
I didn't do the heartworm meds this year, because he is turning 14 and didnt see it as necessary.
Karen

**kharmar** · 10-07-2009, 05:05 AM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

sorry Dolly, I didn't answer your question.
We live in southern Ontario.. we are heading into the fall season now, and it is damp and rainy..
Karen

**AlisonandMia** · 10-07-2009, 05:35 AM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

I think taking to the vet is a good idea. It could be some sort of infection. Diabetics are more prone to infections and are particularly prone to yeast infections.

Alison

**Patty** · 10-07-2009, 12:13 PM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Karen,
My heart goes out to you. I know how incredibly miserable Ali is when her allergies flare up. Chewing her paws, scratching arm pits/head/ears, itching her face, rubbing the hair off under her eyes, etc. It's so hard to narrow down the source.

If you try Benadryl, I was told dosing is 1mg/pound of dog. Ali is between 48-50 pounds so we used 50mg 4x/day. I used the allergy dye-free liquid gels. I did just learn that they contain sorbitol which can be hard for diabetics to excrete and can exacerbate the development of cataracts and neuropathy. I'm not sure the amount contained in the Benadryl is enough to cause this but...just FYI. Also if you're not using them long term it may be worth it to see if you can get some relief for Finnegan.

Praying he finds some relief!
Patty

**eyelostit** · 10-07-2009, 07:05 PM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Hi Karen

I only had one pet with skin problems, I used Sulfodene I think he had flea bites.

Anyway here is a link to some info, and other link shows pictures.

Hope this helps some

Dolly

http://www.peteducation.com/category.cfm?c=2+1581
http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesandconditions/ig/Dermatology-Diary-Photos

**kharmar** · 10-08-2009, 07:56 AM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Thanks for the help and advice from everyone!
I took Finnegan to the vet this morning..
He diagnosed seasonal allergies.. and giving him Benadryl 25 mg caps, three times a day.
Also an anti biotic for the open sore on his back.. and a topical spritzer for that too.
I really won't know until this kicks in, but I hope it provides him with the relief he needs.
The vet did not want to do cortisone/steroids, as they can mess with the glucose levels.. and I was happy with that..
I will keep you posted.
thanks again,
Karen

**peggy0** · 10-08-2009, 02:45 PM

Re: Excessive licking and biting his skin.

Great news. Don't be surprised if the antibiotics 'adjust' his BG levels as well. Forbins go up

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