Angel Sadie Lynn passed on Dec 30, 2015

[WRoberson]

Hello, new member here Introducing Sadie Lynn our 11.5YO, 27lb mini Schnauzer newly diagnosed with Diabetes.

At present she is on 7 units of insulin Detemir via flexPen injections twice a day. Midday her readings are at 227 down from a high of 400 three weeks ago.

Vet tried several other types? This work the best, Time will tell. Cost is something that I am working on. The pens are only sold in boxes of 5 pens (100units ea.) and one hundred needles totaled $357.00 at Costco. Right now the cost using the pens and Detemir (levemir) is running right at $0.22 per unit. New to this so, Questions, SO many Question.

W Roberson
Wenatchee, WA

[jesse girl]

Re: Introducing New Member

hi and welcome .

well it sounds like your at the top end of what a dog your size would take for insulin . the schnauzers can be notorious for needing more insulin than most . some say is a high cholesterol and triglycerides causing the reticence

may want to make very small adjustments higher at this time maybe quarter units . i know it hard to see but lining up the areas between the line can get the job done

[Charlie's mom]

Re: Introducing New Member

Welcome to you and Sadie Lynn! We have all been newbies at this (and after a year I still feel like a newbie!). Fire away with your questions, we're all in this together!

Laura

[amydunn19]

Re: Introducing New Member

Hi and welcome! I have a non diabetic schnauzer myself - lovely little dogs. Schnauzers have typically been difficult to regulate due to the high triglycerides they tend to have. It might be helpful to have blood work to find out if your schnauzer has high triglycerides and try to get those reduced if needed through diet, medication, or supplements.

Do you test at home? Have you done any curves at home or at the vet that you could post?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Introducing New Member

This scares me a bit...

That is a lot of Levemir for a dog her size... has she had a curve done to make sure that's the lowest her blood sugar is going?

Dogs typically need about 1/4 the number of units of Levemir/Detemir that they need of other insulins as its action is typically much stronger in dogs. So if a dog was getting 28 units of NPH or Vetsulin/Caninsulin per injection, they might need about 7 units of Detemir/Levemir per injection. In her case, that would be about 1 unit per pound, which is far more than any dog other than one with uncontrolled Cushing's disease would need.

How many units was she getting of the previous insulins tried?

If she wasn't on a LOT more of the other insulin, I'm very worried that she may be overdosed on Detemir.

Dogs don't always do the lowest blood sugar at the "usual" time of day. Some have lowest blood sugar at mealtime and highest blood sugar at around 6 hours...

Please advise ASAP regarding how she got to this point.

Natalie

[WRoberson]

Re: Introducing New Member

Thanks to all for the fast response. No home curve yet, meter should be here Friday. Sadie spent about a week and a half in ICU with lung and nasal infections which is when the Diabetes was discovered. Got the Infections cleared up and then several days having trouble getting her BG down enough so she could come home. She is a trooper and doesn't mind the needle but really, really hates the no treats rule.

[chucksmom]

Re: Introducing New Member

Hello and welcome to you and Sadie!

That does sound like an awful lot of insulin. And since she was only diagnosed, I'm guessing about 3 weeks ago, it makes me wonder how long the other types of insulin and doses were tried before moving on to another type/dose.
I know that it takes my boy at least 4 days for the dose to settle in and be able to see the actual affects of that dose.

She might not actually need that type of insulin. Did they start her on Vetsulin or Novolin N?

I started on Vetsulin, used it for about 6 weeks, never got my boy regulated. Then I switched to Novolin N after two weeks of Novolin, I had to switch foods. Now I have a combo of food and insulin that keeps his numbers steady. That allows me to feel confident in raising his insulin dose, and we are very close to regulation. Insulin and food have to work together.

It seems like forever since I started trying to get Chuck's blood sugar regulated, but from what I've learned, 2 months is a very short time in the journey to regulation. So I'm learning a lot about diabetes and even more about patience

I do still give my boy treats, a small piece of low fat string cheese, freeze dried chicken bites or a few canned green beans-no/low salt. Some give vegetables like broccoli or cauliflower. So there are some treats you can still give Sadie

[Grayson]

Re: Introducing New Member

We use 5 calorie Milkbones sparingly, but most treats are now strictly veggies - and Grayson eats them right from the freezer! He prefers the broccoli at the moment, but also gets green beans, peas and cauliflower (and no, it doesn't give him bad gas, lol). Try giving some veggies as treats - it seems to satisfy their desire and makes them feel less deprived.

[Cara Sandler]

Re: Introducing New Member

Sparky used to love green beans and asparagus as snacks :-)

[amydunn19]

Re: Introducing New Member

Great that you are getting a meter - testing at home is crucial and it will enable you to learn about how she uses food and insulin.

Treats should be limited in the beginning until you figure out what her patterns are but I think with testing, it is very important to give a treat even if it is a small treat. You don't want testing to be a war and food motivated dogs are much more likely to go along with it if it includes a bite of something. I never give carby treats like biscuits unless Maggie is low - I stick with freeze dried buffalo, boiled chicken pieces, low fat string cheese or a piece of freeze dried sweet potato.

[farrwf]

Re: Introducing New Member

Hi and welcome to you and Sadie Lynn. For openers, you've landed at the the best place on the planet for K9 diabetes information, advice and fellowship.

• How long ago was Sadie diagnosed?
• What other insulins were tried, and for how long were they used?
• What does Sadie eat?

[WRoberson]

Re: Introducing New Member (update)

Not a good ending to the week,First I confused the UPS so my new meter will not get here until Monday.

On top of that this morning when I took Sadie in to see the Vet her BG was over four hundred midday.

Looks like Cushings on the horizon .

She will go in for a couple of days next week for blood work and more test to confirm.

Hanging in.

[amydunn19]

Re: Introducing New Member

Cushings is often misdiagnosed in uncontrolled diabetics - there have been many false positives. I would wait on the test unless she has a potbelly and noticeable hair loss.

[WRoberson]

Re: Introducing New Member

Cushings is often misdiagnosed in uncontrolled diabetics - there have been many false positives. I would wait on the test unless she has a potbelly and noticeable hair loss.

Very slight pot belly but her hair is getting thin and she is showing sign of nerve damage to her hind legs. Wait and See what the test say, not much else we can do.

[momofdecker]

Re: Introducing New Member

There is a sister site to this one - www.k9cushings.com/forum. It may be worth registering there and asking some questions. The folks there are quite experienced and knowledgeable.

I also suspected cushings in my diabetic dog. He was shaved down in April 2012 and by June 2012 his fur was not growing back. He had a pot belly and rear leg challenges. He had a pointy head, inhaled his food and despite having uncontrolled diabetes for about six months, his weight held pretty steady.

Folks here recommended we start with a UCCR test for cushings. It's a urine test - it will not confirm cushings, but it could rule it out. It's the least expensive of the cushings tests. If positive, it would not confirm cushings, it would only warrant additional testing. You would collect the first pee of the day at home, in a non-stressed environment. Then take it to the vets to have it tested. In my dog's case, it ruled out cushings. My boy turned out to be hypothyroid. He also had a high fasting triglyceride level and a very high fasting cholesterol value. In addition, he was confirmed positive for pancreatitis via the SPEC cPL test. Cushing, high lipids such as triglycerides and cholesterol, hypothyroidism and pancreatitis can all individually cause insulin resistance in a diabetic dog. Combine more than one and they can really pack a punch.

We also had to switch to levemir to try to control my dog's blood glucose (bg). We started at 5u and at one point in time got up to 10u before the hypothyroidism was dx. He dropped back to around 4.5u after we started giving him thyroid meds.

There is not a Walgreens close enough to me for me to have checked, but other folks on here say that is the place to buy levemir. You can sign up for a savings club card and then get a discounted cost on the insulin. Because of the amount of insulin we used, we opted for the levemir vial vs. the pens. The vial, if I remember correctly, was a bit less expensive than the pens. We went through enough when my boy was at 10u that we didn't worry about any potency loss. Might be worth looking in to at 7u per injection?

Best of luck to you on this new journey of yours.

Holli