Angel Sadie Lynn passed on Dec 30, 2015

[chucksmom]

Re: Sadie Lynn

WRoberson, what a timely post.
I'm going through the same thing with my Chuck. He had been on a pain med for over a year, but I was concerned because of the possible effects on his liver.

So when I got a new vet, he suggested using the pain meds on an "as needed" basis. Then suggested Dasuquin w/MSM as a supplement. So I thought OK, sounds good.
We did the 5 week load dose, his numbers were pretty stable, high, but stable. He had been getting a tablet in the morning and in the evening. Seemed just as pain free as he had on the pain meds. When it was time to go to the maintenance dose, one tablet daily, I left off the morning pill, thinking I'd give the pill with his evening meal.

I forgot the #1 rule of regulating diabetes-consistency.
We got some very unusual lows, dropping all day to to a low of 96, only thing different was the elimination of that morning pill.

I decided to split the pill and give half at the morning meal and half at the evening meal today.
Apparently the pills are not the sort that can be split. Because he started with a decent morning fasting number and again continued to drop all day to a low of 79, again I had to wait 45 minutes after food & second half of tablet, for BG to rise enough for me to give a reduced dose of insulin. BG dropped for 3 hours after insulin before starting to rise again.

I will not be giving any Dasuquin w/MSM tomorrow, because I'm starting to think it is the dextrose in the chewable tablet causing these strange BG numbers.
I'll watch his BG the next couple of days to be sure. If he needs a supplement, I'm looking at the Cosequin DS Capsules, they don't have any dextrose or other additives that could cause problems.

I hope the 1/2 a pill works for your Sadie Lynn!

[WRoberson]

Re: Sadie Lynn

I forgot the #1 rule of regulating diabetes-consistency.

AMEN to that, AMEN to that!

We woke to a happy dog this morning, she was awake at 6 and moving fairly well and ready to be fed.

Morning Fast 97

Again with the "wait and wonder"

[WRoberson]

Re: Sadie Lynn

I understand.

Her fasting numbers have been running between 100and 120 for the last few weeks then yesterday 200 and this morning 97. I tend to worry about the overnight lows.


As always I wait and wonder

William


Her daily averages have been running 146, 155, 169, 208 and showing a slow climb. she is "eatin" an "poopin" but her water consumption is at about 451 ml which is about half of the recommended for her weight. All this as filler and back ground.

[WRoberson]

Re: Sadie Lynn

fast 97
12 noon 206
5PM 316

She never went below 210 this afternoon, 1 hour until dinner and injection.


Oh! what fun it is to ride on the Glucose curve!

[chucksmom]

Re: Sadie Lynn

Oh! what fun it is to ride on the Glucose curve!

Oh, William, I know what you mean!

Have you ever done a night time curve? Not sure if that is an option for you. I know if you work, staying up all night would not be an option. I'm just curious as to why such a low fasting number in the morning and rising during to such a high in the evening. But then I' confused about most things involving this crazy disease.
With those numbers, I don't know what I'd do.
I hope you find some answers for your girl soon.

[amydunn19]

Re: Sadie Lynn

There are certain patterns that are very hard to explain but we sometimes have to play detective and mad scientist at the same time.

So many things affect blood sugar and you have to take into account everything. For example, It has been my experience that everything your dog puts in his/her mouth or on their body has some potential effect on blood sugar. Medications and supplements along with ear or skin ointments, creams and sprays can cause higher or lower blood sugar depending on what is in them and what action they cause. Even if the vets say it shouldn't affect blood sugar, it can. They don't get the luxury of testing this stuff out like we do.

Also, day and night can cause different readings and if you think about it, it makes sense. In the daytime, if you are with your dog or if your dog is with other dogs, activity may be increased by quite a bit. If your dog then sleeps all night , there is no activity during that time(if you are lucky) so it stands to reason that numbers will be different. I have always felt Maggie is safer at night because there is no activity to bring her levels down. This is where things get complicated- because some dogs after activity all day, at evening fasting, their levels are high because they may have used up their insulin. Another dog doing the same things may have a completely opposite reaction and numbers. That is why we always stress there is no one size fits all approach. Without activity, the insulin could have been prolonged so the morning fasting is lower because the insulin isn't used up. Then, the dog is more active during the day, depleting the insulin and has a high evening fasting. Not the case for all but might explain the mystery.

There are ways to counteract this but you have to have some well established curve data to figure if what you are seeing is related to a scenario like this. This is like a big puzzle you are putting together. You have to keep gathering data to draw conclusions.

[WRoberson]

Re: Sadie Lynn

Thanks for the input from everyone.

The non-trend continues

Morning fast 203 ( I keep telling her we are not going for a record here)

I am not completely surprised by the high morning fast number as last evening there was the Christmas company thing going on and with it a little more activity. As Amydunn19 pointed out she may have worked her way thru her insulin faster than normal.

again we wait and wonder


Thanks to all

William

[Thehelpfulone]

Re: Sadie Lynn

Looking good WRoberson!

oh, I downloaded the excel file.. no go, wouldn't open for me at all. Oh well, good ole pen and paper work just fine

Let me know if this works for everyone.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

It 'should' be set so that anyone with that link can view it. If you sign-in (or up) for a google account, you should be able to download it to your "Google drive", which will allow you to save it to your own google storage for filling out with your own pet's data.

[chucksmom]

Re: Sadie Lynn

Let me know if this works for everyone.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

It 'should' be set so that anyone with that link can view it. If you sign-in (or up) for a google account, you should be able to download it to your "Google drive", which will allow you to save it to your own google storage for filling out with your own pet's data.

YES! This worked just fine for me. Thank you so much, this will make a much nicer presentation to my vet than my scribbled and dog eared spiral notebook, lol.
Thanks again, Thehelpfulone

opps spoke to soon, I can open it, but I can't edit it. I'm sure it's an operator error, I've never used google doc before.

[Thehelpfulone]

Re: Sadie Lynn

YES! This worked just fine for me. Thank you so much, this will make a much nicer presentation to my vet than my scribbled and dog eared spiral notebook, lol.
Thanks again, Thehelpfulone

opps spoke to soon, I can open it, but I can't edit it. I'm sure it's an operator error, I've never used google doc before.

Not operator error. That is a generic template. Do you have a smartphone like an android or an iphone? We can either PM or leave it in the thread for anyone else to follow as to how to transfer that to your own online google doc storage.

[WRoberson]

Re: Sadie Lynn

So very busy day around here so I missed a couple of BG test but here are the numbers for the day.


morning fast 203
9:45 324
11:30 179
5PM 94
630food plus 7u

8:30PM 373

[chucksmom]

Re: Sadie Lynn

William, I have seen Chucks numbers do this, and it drives me crazy! I don't know why, usually nothing has changed.

I do have a couple of questions, are you still giving him the Cosequin DS? And is it the chewable tablets or the capsules?
I stopped giving Chuck the Dasuquin w/MSM Thursday, just to see if it was the 1/2 tablet making his numbers wonky. And so far, knock on wood, for the last two days, I haven't had any unexplained lows.

I looked into the Cosequin DS, and I will probably order the capsules, because they have fewer ingredients, so fewer things that could mess with BG. The chewables have additives to add to the taste, I guess.

I'm pretty sure I'll have to give him something for joint pain, I noticed after just two days without the supplement he seems to move a little slower.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Sadie Lynn

Wrobertson

are you saying tonight you upped Sadie Lynns insulin to 7 units?

Am really concerned.

Only in a couple of days you,ve raised her insulin by 2 units to 5iu to then upped again 2 units to 7iu. Without doing a 7 day curve.

Levemir is stronger , you shouldnt be raising her dose without doing a full curve.. wait, hold 7 days , post the curve the curve results, Contact you VET with the results before raising her dose.



others will be in to express their opinion on Sadie Lyne,s health

[WRoberson]

Re: Sadie Lynn

After talking to the our vet every evening for the last week and doing any number of curves we have now come to the thought that there is some underlying undiagnosed problem. More tests starting on Monday...

Thanks to all for your help.

[amydunn19]

Re: Sadie Lynn

I know that diabetes is a frustrating and terrifying disease - we all have been where you are at some point. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that you have to have more patience when you make any changes at all - dose, supplements, food, routine and wait 5-7 days before you change anything else.

You can't look at the numbers and analyze them day to day and be reactive to what you see. Human diabetics use a type of insulin that they check their sugar and adjust accordingly and may not give themselves the same dose day to day. Dogs are different. Consistency applies to everything and you have to give her body a chance to adapt to any change before you abruptly change it again. Patience is absolutely the hardest lesson to learn with this disease but I honestly believe that you will never figure out what is happening until you leave her at a consistent dose for 5-7 days without changing anything. Then, evaluate where she is at. The only exception is if she is going too low. Elevated numbers are annoying and dogs can have elevated blood sugar for longer periods of time without the type of damage humans have.

I don't think you can conclude that 6 units was not enough for her based on a couple of days that you said were disrupted with Christmas company and excitement. I would drop back to 6 units and leave her there for five days and go from there.